What is going on in the UK?

[danjuno]

has given the world most of the technology and pieces of welfare we enjoy today.

Debatable, especially the latter.

To see it so rapidly decline is saddening.

A whole 9.9%? Truly the end times.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Then where is the line between the sort of criminal everyone is and the sort that is a societal ill?

This isn't relevant to the discussion at all, this is a complete tangent.

 

[danjuno]

Are you of the opinion that criminals aren't a societal ill? Either way, you seem to be of the opinion that more of a bad thing isn't a bad thing so long as the rate of badness remains constant, which is certainly an interesting thing to say.

This isn't relevant to the discussion at all, this is a complete tangent.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You're not making a point.

 

[Samson]

You're not making a point.

If you want to know if criminals are a societal ill it is pretty relevant if you mean people who smoke a joint or oligarchs who ignore environmental standards, or whatever you actually meant.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

If you want to know if criminals are a societal ill it is pretty relevant if you mean people who smoke a joint or oligarchs who ignore environmental standards, or whatever you actually meant.

I honestly don't know where you have to go to learn to conduct arguments like this, it's utterly baffling to me.

A reminder that the initial point I was responding to, and the topic of the discussion (at least as long as I've been part of it), was (paraphrasing) "if the level of criminality of immigrants is at the same level as natives, then there's no argument against allowing them in" (and bear in mind this was a claim made in immediate response to a list of rapes and murders I believe). My retort was that one should expect much lower levels of criminality from immigrants, precisely because it's entirely in the interest of the host nation to select the best, or at least people who aren't committing crimes.

So yes, it's completely irrelevant to ask me to now define what "crime" even means, or at which arbitrary point I would place a dividing line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" crime, because none of that (apparently) needed to be clarified in the initial claim I was responding to.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

"The level of meteor impacts we suffer is already damaging enough, we shouldn't be trying to steer more interplanetary material towards us to have even more"

"Ah... but where precisely are you setting the line between harmless space dust and and actually dangerous impactors?"

"I don't see how that's relevant to what I said"

"Ah... no answer. How interesting. I guess I win then."


Now all that's needed is for someone to come back with some graphs that highlight the negligible dangers of meteor impacts, and we can go full meta on this.

 

[Samson]

I honestly don't know where you have to go to learn to conduct arguments like this, it's utterly baffling to me.

A reminder that the initial point I was responding to, and the topic of the discussion (at least as long as I've been part of it), was (paraphrasing) "if the level of criminality of immigrants is at the same level as natives, then there's no argument against allowing them in" (and bear in mind this was a claim made in immediate response to a list of rapes and murders I believe). My retort was that one should expect much lower levels of criminality from immigrants, precisely because it's entirely in the interest of the host nation to select the best, or at least people who aren't committing crimes.

So yes, it's completely irrelevant to ask me to now define what "crime" even means, or at which arbitrary point I would place a dividing line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" crime, because none of that (apparently) needed to be clarified in the initial claim I was responding to.

I do not see that that is the sole or even primary point of discussion in this sub thread. This is the chain of replies:

Spoiler Reply chain :

British people are from Britain and are necessarily therefore in Britain, unless someone else has allowed them to move to their country. It's a meaningless comparison, or rather a comparison that ignores the meaning of the original complaint.

If the crime rate amongst immigrants is not meaningfully higher than natives, than the argument against immigration on the basis of crime seems unconvincing.

If the carcinogen and toxin release rate of additional cigarettes is not meaningfully higher than cigarettes already smoked, then the the argument against ceasing smoking on the basis of health benefits seems unconvincing.

In addition to what Senethro and Samson have said, comparing people to something that causes cancer is certainly an interesting thing to say.

Are you of the opinion that criminals aren't a societal ill?

I cannot see you point there.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

"The level of meteor impacts we suffer is already damaging enough, we shouldn't be trying to steer more interplanetary material towards us to have even more"

"Ah... but where precisely are you setting the line between harmless space dust and and actually dangerous impactors?"

"I don't see how that's relevant to what I said"

"Ah... no answer. How interesting. I guess I win then."


Now all that's needed is for someone to come back with some graphs that highlight the negligible dangers of meteor impacts, and we can go full meta on this.

Are you alright? What on earth are you talking about

 

[Samson]

Some actual good news?

Apparently a 3% tax on profits will end the North Sea oil and gas industry. I do not believe it, but perhaps it is true.

The former head of Oil & Gas UK has warned that Labour’s Autumn Budget has “signed the official death warrant” of the North Sea oil and gas industry – and says Aberdeen must brace for a downturn.

Mr Webb said the government’s Energy Profits Levy and the new North Sea Future Plan will push skilled workers, investment and equipment out of the north-east.

The Energy Profits Levy "increases the rate of Energy Profits Levy by 3 percentage points to 38%, extends the end date of the Energy Profits Levy to 31 March 2030, and removes the Energy Profits Levy’s Investment Allowance."

The North Sea Future Plan will manage existing oil and gas fields for their lifespan and not to issue new licences to explore new fields.

 

[Birdjaguar]

disregard/hate towards our values, our Christian influenced morals and system of rule of law. These folks have been committing heinous crimes against the native people that foot the bill for their stay and when after a decade of being abused "we", finally, raise our voices and political parties are getting the message that enough is enough we are the ones being called obsessed...like we just have to tolerate the raping of our women and children and murder of passerby in silence

Which of those crimes have not been committed by native Portuguese? What % of those crimes are committed by immigrants? Which Christian morals are being disregarded? I guess I assume the Catholic ones like priests diddling little boys!
Non nationals (all types) make up 7.5% of Portugal's population. Are they committing more than 7% of the violent crimes?

Crime in Portugal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Immigrants “not linked to crime”

Researcher Catarina Reis de Oliveira, from the Migration Observatory, has called for greater efforts from the authorities to demystify the stereotypes associated with immigrants and “combat these false perceptions” that stigmatise them.

www.theportugalnews.com

 

[Theov]

Debatable, especially the latter.

Sure. Let's debate it then.
How do you want to debate it?
Name the 10 most important (medical) inventions of the last 100 years?
Name the 10 things we use the most in a week, look where they were invented?
Name the 10 most influential countries and see where they are located?
Name the 10 safest countries and see where they are located?
Name the 10 countries with the highest standard of living?
...
I think the west will come up a lot.

A whole 9.9%? Truly the end times.

This misses the fact that the number is rising.
10% is actually A LOT.
And the number is rising, not going down.

But hey - keep pretending there's nothing to worry about. I'm sure that will go just fine.

 

[Ordnael]

Which Christian morals are being disregarded? I guess I assume the Catholic ones like priests diddling little boys!

I'll stand in the front row of the jury condemning diddler priests and all other rapists if I'll ever be called for such a duty.

I can tell the immigrant statistics you got are outdated and official numbers already place them above 1,5 million in a small country of 10 million so immigrants already constitute 15% of population.
There's been a higher state institutions debacle over the migrant numbers with our head of state calling out our parliamentary right exaggerated about the urgency of reforming ou immigration laws with him coming on media many times commenting about those exaggerations and telling that migrant numbers are low, but then came the official numbers disproving his narrative and so far he and our left have been mute on tracking back and apologising for calling others liars when factual liars they are.
It's all very tiring and with the reported failings of our understaffed under budgeted migrant office AIMA I believe the numbers are most likely near 2 million and as such 20% of population.

We've had a rise in knife murders in the capital related to immigrants and crime specialists reporters from Brazil already have told in news that violent gangs from Brazil are already established here.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'll stand in the front row of the jury condemning diddler priests and all other rapists if I'll ever be called for such a duty.

Why would it take that stage for you to do anything when the evidence is historical and evident in multiple countries besides your own

 

[Samson]

The left demonstrating their traditional ability to pull together and overlook minor differences of opinion that has brought them so much power over the years

Corbyn confirmed to journalists on Saturday that he preferred a single leader and is likely to stand for the role but Sultana said she would vote for collective leadership and that she did not believe parties should be run by “sole personalities”.

In a sign of further division within the fledgling movement, a spokesperson for Sultana said she would not be entering the conference hall on Saturday in solidarity with delegates who were expelled over links to other leftwing parties, describing the process as a “witch-hunt”.

It is understood that one of her supporters, James Giles, a councillor in Kingston, was barred from entering the conference centre. Other members were expelled on Friday over alleged membership of the Socialist Workers party.

Sultana said: “I think we have to work with the Greens and other parties so we can stop Nigel Farage getting into Number 10. That has to be the guiding principle for all of us who want to stop fascism.”

Corbyn said it “would essentially be a decision for the local branches of Your Party” to judge what was best in their area, but he that he would not rule out cooperating with the Green party, which has enjoyed a rise in popularity under its new leader, Zack Polanski.