R
Ram Michaeli
Guest
What do you think is of bigger improvment (relatively), warrior upgrader to swordman or tank upgraded to modern armor?
What is of Bigger Improvment - Warrior to Swordman or Tank to Moderan Armor?
A warrior cannot beat anything, while a tank can.
R
Ram Michaeli
Guest
The Civilization Calculator
A warrior can beat quite a lot actually.
A warrior can beat quite a lot actually.
The chance of a regular warrior beating a spearmen in a forest is 14.7%. Not too good. Now a tank has a 61.398% chance of beating infantry in a forest. A swordsman has a 58.476% chance of beating a spearmen in forest, while a modern armor has a 77.641% chance of beating an infantry in a forest. The difference is quite large between warrior and swordsmen, and not nearly as large between tank and modern armor.
No.Dice
Warlord
Not speaking in terms of what can beat what..
A strong start leads to a strong finish. Early wars have a greater influence on the game. My empire is usually carried on the backs of my swordsman, especially if i have a subpar starting position.
A strong start leads to a strong finish. Early wars have a greater influence on the game. My empire is usually carried on the backs of my swordsman, especially if i have a subpar starting position.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Warrior - Swordsman:
+300% to attack (3-1)
+200% to defense (2-1)
+0% to speed (1-1)
Tank - Modern Armor
+150% to attack (24-16)
+200% to defense (16-8)
+150% to speed (3-2)
+300% to attack (3-1)
+200% to defense (2-1)
+0% to speed (1-1)
Tank - Modern Armor
+150% to attack (24-16)
+200% to defense (16-8)
+150% to speed (3-2)
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
I can't believe anyone is still playing the goofy, non-historical unit values that came with the original crummy mod.
All my units have been increased in values except the earliest ones. The idea of such as musketmen being 2.4. while swordsmen are 3.2. is too ridiculous for game play. Or how about knights havng a '3' defense factor, but cavalry (with rifles) having the same defense strength?!
No thanks, Firaxis. My knights are now 5.2.
All my units have been increased in values except the earliest ones. The idea of such as musketmen being 2.4. while swordsmen are 3.2. is too ridiculous for game play. Or how about knights havng a '3' defense factor, but cavalry (with rifles) having the same defense strength?!
No thanks, Firaxis. My knights are now 5.2.IronicWarrior19
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 151
Warrior to swordzman - then again I don't know why I'm wasting my time telling this to you really cool guys , you won't understand it, you just don't have the skillz.
Grey Knight
Old hacker
It shocks me that people just look at A/D/M without considering cost. People, of course one swordsman is going to kick ass compared to one warrior! The real question, is if you produce 30 shields of swordsmen (1) and I produce 30 shields of warriors (3), who will me? Well, me of course, but who's the author here anyway? 
The numbers:
Attacking a spearman in forest
3 warriors - 64.9%
1 swordsman - 58.4%
Defending against an attacking swordsman in forest
3 warriors - 67.2%
1 swordsman - 41.6%
Attacking infantry in forest
tank - 61.4% / 66.1% (6HP vs 6HP)
Modern Armor - 77.6% / 76.8% (5HP vs 6HP)
Defending against 6HP tank in forest
Tank (6HP) - 21.3%
MA (5HP) - 51.9%
Three warriors is better* in almost every way than one swordsman!!! The major downside** is it could cost 2gpt extra - but if your in despotism, and are well under the unit cap (which, particularly early on, you are since you REX'd cities), the first batch will be free!
Tanks cost 100, MA cost 120, so to balance them I gave tanks 6HP and MA 5HP in the calculator. Even with less HP, the MA won handily. Throw the strategic value of 3 movement on top, and the tank to MA jump is vastly superior. (Moral of that story is to build lots of tanks, and upgrade to modern armor as soon as possible!)
FWIW, the vote at the time of posting is 13 to 7 in favor of swordsmen.
Cheers,
Shawn
* Particularly when you consider, that on defense, three units is vastly superior to one, since one attack can only kill one unit. If he comes with 5 swordsmen, and I have 6 warriors defending, he cannot take the city!
** Another downside to the mass warrior strategy is the low probability of promotions on a per-unit basis. Sure, you may get them on the few warriors that manage to win (1 in 6!), but your swordsmen will fare much better (1 in 2) in surviving long enough to be promoted. Once he hits elite, the swordsman's odds go up to 84%!
The numbers:
Attacking a spearman in forest
3 warriors - 64.9%
1 swordsman - 58.4%
Defending against an attacking swordsman in forest
3 warriors - 67.2%
1 swordsman - 41.6%
Attacking infantry in forest
tank - 61.4% / 66.1% (6HP vs 6HP)
Modern Armor - 77.6% / 76.8% (5HP vs 6HP)
Defending against 6HP tank in forest
Tank (6HP) - 21.3%
MA (5HP) - 51.9%
Three warriors is better* in almost every way than one swordsman!!! The major downside** is it could cost 2gpt extra - but if your in despotism, and are well under the unit cap (which, particularly early on, you are since you REX'd cities), the first batch will be free!
Tanks cost 100, MA cost 120, so to balance them I gave tanks 6HP and MA 5HP in the calculator. Even with less HP, the MA won handily. Throw the strategic value of 3 movement on top, and the tank to MA jump is vastly superior. (Moral of that story is to build lots of tanks, and upgrade to modern armor as soon as possible!)
FWIW, the vote at the time of posting is 13 to 7 in favor of swordsmen.
Cheers,
Shawn
* Particularly when you consider, that on defense, three units is vastly superior to one, since one attack can only kill one unit. If he comes with 5 swordsmen, and I have 6 warriors defending, he cannot take the city!
** Another downside to the mass warrior strategy is the low probability of promotions on a per-unit basis. Sure, you may get them on the few warriors that manage to win (1 in 6!), but your swordsmen will fare much better (1 in 2) in surviving long enough to be promoted. Once he hits elite, the swordsman's odds go up to 84%!
Grey Knight
Old hacker
Oh, and I forgot:
Zouave - That has nothing at all to do with the topic. Take your tired rant somewhere else
IronicWarrior19 - Not only are you an arrogant ass, you're a stupid one. At arrogant you're just annoying. With stupidity your pathetic.
Shawn
Zouave - That has nothing at all to do with the topic. Take your tired rant somewhere else
IronicWarrior19 - Not only are you an arrogant ass, you're a stupid one. At arrogant you're just annoying. With stupidity your pathetic.
Shawn
IronicWarrior19
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 151
Lol just coz j00 ain't got the skillz. J00 forget the warriors will die, the swordz can heal and r more likely to win the battle t00. R00k.
Grey Knight
Old hacker
True, when you throw unit healing in the swordsman route will have a benifit. Can you post the math to show how much benifit? Didn't think so twink.
And no, the swords won't win more. Or were you not aware that 64.9% is bigger than 58.4%?
Shawn
And no, the swords won't win more. Or were you not aware that 64.9% is bigger than 58.4%?
Shawn
IronicWarrior19
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 151
Swordz will win more than 3 warriors d00d bcoz often 2 warriorz will di3z... 2 warriorz d33d iz 20 shieldz gone... it iz a big waste on d3ity unless j00 iz Aztecs...then j00r swordz just h33l in j00r captured citiez... for fr33, swordz is always b3tt3rz.
I vote for Warrior to Swordman because all civs are at starting age, not much production and have only low defense units. Compared to Modern Era, every civs can produce average 10+ units/turn it definitely be a long-time war and they all have high defensive units too. Then high attack won't score much.
lol, funny people talking.
i decided warrior to sword
because normally idon'T play on deity so when i get to modern armor i have a tech lead and can kill my ennemi easily and anyway i rarely play up to that time , and if i do, the Ai are all dead or i am close to a cultural win or any other kind of victory.
3 warrior on deity give you 3 happy poeple in some citi, better then 1 swordman in 1 citi giving 1 happy poeple.
but i still prefer swordman since i don'T play deity and i don'T need much happy poeple on emperor or monarch
i decided warrior to sword
because normally idon'T play on deity so when i get to modern armor i have a tech lead and can kill my ennemi easily and anyway i rarely play up to that time , and if i do, the Ai are all dead or i am close to a cultural win or any other kind of victory.
3 warrior on deity give you 3 happy poeple in some citi, better then 1 swordman in 1 citi giving 1 happy poeple.
but i still prefer swordman since i don'T play deity and i don'T need much happy poeple on emperor or monarch
Grey Knight
Old hacker
Can you do the math to prove your case?
Here, I'll translate for you:
N00mb3rz, d00d. P0st y3r 31317 n00mb3rz.
Should I mention, once again, modern armor whups versus tanks any way you calculate it???
Shawn
Here, I'll translate for you:
N00mb3rz, d00d. P0st y3r 31317 n00mb3rz.
Should I mention, once again, modern armor whups versus tanks any way you calculate it???
Shawn
IronicWarrior19
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 151
Sorry d00d, can't reveal my skillz to j00 really cool guy .
cameramano
Television Cameraman
Why? There are intermediate units between warriors and swordsmen. Alot of them. All of the horseman caste. There is nothing in the way of offensive units between tanks and modern armor. Also, you can upgrade to MA in one turn... you need to build new units to upgrade from a warrior based army.
Also, if you are attacking even outclassed force, you still need a defensive unit with your swordsmen. Unless your opponent has some serious tanks (which are hard to get for the ai since they have to build them) your modern armor can walk in alone against a soft opponent.
Also, if you are attacking even outclassed force, you still need a defensive unit with your swordsmen. Unless your opponent has some serious tanks (which are hard to get for the ai since they have to build them) your modern armor can walk in alone against a soft opponent.
IronicWarrior19
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 151
Uhhh... j00 can upgrade straight from warriorz to swordz d00d... 40 goldz.
