What is racism?

[Hitro]

Sounds like a weird question but I will explain it.

I've repeatedly seen people refer to some kind of hatred as "racism".
For example someone (I think willemvanoranje) said he has encountered racism against Germans in school (in the Netherlands).
Another example was in the "Hate the French" poll. The Enemy Ace said the polls options were kind of racist.

Now my question is: If the Dutch hate the Germans or the Americans the French, is that racism?
Or otherwise: What is a race in that matter?

Although in my opinion EVERY kind of racial thinking is stupid there simply are and have been several definitions of race.
But usually there's a difference between a race and a people. For example nobody would speak of the "American Race" for obvious reasons.
But in that kind of thinking aren't French, Dutch and Germans all the same race? Then how can hatred between these peoples be racism?

 

[damunzy]

Good question. To me racism loosely deals hatered because of skin color, ancestrial background (I am 62.5% German, if you hate me bacause of that), birth place (whether southtown of city X versus northtown of city X or America vs Austria). I think that is placing too much under the term racism but they are all just as bad in my mind, although the hatred vs a specific country can be understood when you are at war with them or even with a specific race/religion in the case of Isreal vs Palestines.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Racism is when every second kid in europe uses the word 'Jew' as a curse.

 

[Ouchgeddon]

Racism is a dislike, hatred, intolerance, bias against etc. people of a certain race. It seems perfectly rational and sometimes even morally correct to racists, as in the case of Ku Klux Klan.

Racists against a certain people have the notion that these people are less fit, smart or lawful than themselves. The racists think it is due to upbringing, poor genes or a wickedness in the targets that cannot be changed, no exceptions. For example, those who consider being White as being pure, would classify anyone without pure lineage as different. Mariah Carey, for example, who is white/black. In this case a racist against negroes would be intolerant of Mariah's contaminating black lineage, rather than accept her white side lineage.

Historically looking out for the welfare of your own race has been required to ensure the survival of your tribe, genes, culture. This included massacering everyone not of that race and beliefs. One can just take a look at America and Australia. Taken to the extreme, racists believe their own race is superior and that certain other races (or cultures) are works of evil and should be removed.

I am against racism personally. Race is not a genetic code, however racial features such as skin tone are. Nor is it a species; all humans are the same species, and can interbreed...um, intermarry. Jesus was not white nor black, but semitic...In fact Jewish I think. X-men Mutants are discriminated against as a whole, regardless of race. You get it. It might take alien invaders to break the underlying notions and bias of race.

 

[BlueMonday]

Racism is indeed a squirrely term. That's why I try to say prejudice instead of racism. It's a much more inclusive term that envelopes ethnic groups, not racial groups. A set of misconstrued beliefs about a certian group that are mostly wrong. The beliefs are not always (although usually) dangerous, mind you, but are incorrect nonetheless.

In twenty years of cognizance here on Earth I've learned two things about prejudice. One, everyone is prejudice to some degree. I have mine, you have yours, he has his, she has hers that's just the way it is. To me, prejudice seems to be a sort of psychological defense mechanism preventing us from learning too much about a person or to keep us unattached emotionally to strangers. I personally enjoy my apathy for the majority of the world. Most people in the world have nothing to do with me, and likewise I them. If I had to worry about every person in the world, my own life would never go anywhere.

The second thing I've learned about prejudice is that most people who are prejudice don't know about it. People treat other people based entirely on appearence; once again, that's the way it is. I see it every day. Just a week ago a friend of mine got expelled based partly on the fact that she was latina. If you ask the administration why she was expelled , they'll go through a long list of things she's done, but in reality the things my friend is being expelled for are far less in number and severity then the sh!t I've seen cracker kids get away with. Fortuneatly for my friend, administration changed their minds once I had a little chat with them.

 

[BigBirdZ28]

Racism is the primordial instinct in every human that causes them to pit man vs man in a never ending CONTEST OF SPEED.

 

[scorch]

on the same topic, is it wrong to make racial generalisations? I do not mean by judging an individual because of what his/her race 'generally' does, but by having stereotypes in a story. the best example i guess is in a joke.
ie. Why are indians bad a soccor? Coz everytime they get a corner, they set up a dairy.

Is that joke racist? It uses a stereotype to be funny, it would not be funny if it was white people, black, jew etc, because it is only indians that have the stereotype of owning all the dairys. (well atleast in NZ).

Tell me what you think.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
Racism is when every second kid in europe uses the word 'Jew' as a curse.

That, Ieblaze is huge sweeping blanket statement.
And shows your warped view that Europe is racist.

No-one I know uses 'jew' to insult people.
Maybe it's just the kind of environment you live in, It isn't mine.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by BigBirdZ28
Racism is the primordial instinct in every human that causes them to pit man vs man in a never ending CONTEST OF SPEED.

Hmmm, depends if you value human life or not, I guess.

I do.

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by scorch
on the same topic, is it wrong to make racial generalisations? I do not mean by judging an individual because of what his/her race 'generally' does, but by having stereotypes in a story. the best example i guess is in a joke.
ie. Why are indians bad a soccor? Coz everytime they get a corner, they set up a dairy.

Is that joke racist? It uses a stereotype to be funny, it would not be funny if it was white people, black, jew etc, because it is only indians that have the stereotype of owning all the dairys. (well atleast in NZ).

Tell me what you think.

A grey area, but I think it would depend on "who" said it and "where", but basically I think that in most scenarios, it is fine.

Remember Billy T James? (for international people, he was a Maori comedian). He made a living out of poking fun at Maori stereotypes. A European New Zealander could have never got away with it though....

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by CurtSibling


That, Ieblaze is huge sweeping blanket statement.
And shows your warped view that Europe is racist.

No-one I know uses 'jew' to insult people.
Maybe it's just the kind of environment you live in, It isn't mine.

Thats just the impression I get from talking to europeans (And americans also I guess) on the internet, mostly teenagers in the age of 16 that are influenced from south park and such.
Even a scottish kid admitted every 2nd kid in his school uses jew as a curse.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by CurtSibling


That, Ieblaze is huge sweeping blanket statement.
And shows your warped view that Europe is racist.

No-one I know uses 'jew' to insult people.
Maybe it's just the kind of environment you live in, It isn't mine.

Curt,

I can't speak for Europe, but "Jew" was used constantly as an insult by all of those I went to school with, referring to being tightfisted over money or the like. One of the disgraceful features of the private school system is the culture and climate of racism, homophobia, etc, etc.

But saying all of Europe, instead of "in my experience" is going too far.

And I believe that BigBird's definition of racism was a play on words, eg motor RACE

 

[Kinniken]

...unfortunatly you are partly right... some people in europe (in my case France) use "Jew" as an insult. But:
-it's certainly not "every second kid"
-it's not limited to jews. "Arab" is a much more common insult than "jew" in France these days. Sad world

 

[Reichsmarshal]

Racism is the belief in the genetic superiority of one race over another.

Here's a definiton that seems accurate:

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So it really has to do with believe that race determines everything and using prejudice and discrimination as a result.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Reichsmarshal
Racism is the belief in the genetic superiority of one race over another.

Here's a definiton that seems accurate:

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So it really has to do with believe that race determines everything and using prejudice and discrimination as a result.

Racism in the meaning of descrimination has always existed. Modern racism, which is saying you're geneticly better then someone else has evolved in the second half of the 19s century when old times racists used the evolution theory.
Racism isn't hating a nationality it's hating someone because of something he was born with. For example: A German can be born to two dutch parents and the dutch will still hate him because of his nationality. However if he'll become a dutch citizen they won't hate him anymore.
Racism is for example a black man descriminated by whites. He is considered of a black race because his parents and grnadparents and so on were blacks and unless he's Michael Jackson he'll stay black for the rest of his life. It's not that the society doesn't like him because he's black and they want him to change, they hate him because they believe he is bad for them just by being black.

 

[Lt.Col. Kilgore]

Rascism is a strange thing because it takes place based on observations. One of the main arguments against blacks is that they score lower on I.Q. tests (on average) than whites. Even with taking into consideration that the tests aren't 'culturally biased' (which they aren't) does this mean that just because the average black has a lower I.Q. than the average white that no black person can ever be smarter than a white? This is where the 'logic' of rascism wares thin. Take a black Harvard graduate pitted against a dumb white who steals for a living and has a crack addiction who has seven illigitamate children. Is he still better than the black? Its not like I (who am white) am any more 'the average black' than a black who actually stands out in any racial group.

Though anti-rascism is also strange when taken to excess. When someone says they don't like Jews people take this to be that they're anti-Semitic. Not necessarily. Someone can be Jewish and not of the Semitic race right? They might be a white convert. Just as a Semitic person can be an atheist (I know plenty!) and they aren't Jews because in order to be a Jew you must adhere to that religion. Therefore to me saying you don't like Jews (which isn't necessarily any more logical) is like saying you don't like Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. who can be of any race (just like Jews!). Saying someone is anti-Semitic, must then, also include Syrians, Lebanese, and many other (Semitic) ethnic groups.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe


Thats just the impression I get from talking to europeans (And americans also I guess) on the internet, mostly teenagers in the age of 16 that are influenced from south park and such.
Even a scottish kid admitted every 2nd kid in his school uses jew as a curse.

Depends where you are, IceBlaZe
Don't judge people you have never met.

That, my friend, is one of the causes of racism.

 

[Hitro]

As I thought there are pretty different definitions.

Originally posted by IceBlaze
Racism is when every second kid in europe uses the word 'Jew' as a curse.

Definetely true. But that doesn't really answer my question as it is just one example for racism. So you see Jews as a race (like most people do). Are the Dutch a race as well?

Originally posted by Ouchgeddon
Racism is a dislike, hatred, intolerance, bias against etc. people of a certain race.

Originally posted by Reichsmarshal
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Both are technically correct defintions but they don't say what a race is. Are white people a race? Germanic whites alone? The Dutch alone?

Originally posted by Lt.Col. Kilgore
Though anti-rascism is also strange when taken to excess. When someone says they don't like Jews people take this to be that they're anti-Semitic. Not necessarily.

I think if racists refer to "Jews" they mean the jewish people not the jewish religion. Anti-Semitism is the term used for hatred towards people who are ethnically jewish, though they might be atheists or something else.
But this is an example for what I intended with this thread. There is no clear definition of race and therefore racism.

I think most of us if not all would agree that if someone thinks another one is stupid because he is black that is racism. So most of us would see blacks and whites as different races. But history has shown (and some here gave examples already) that this (White, Black, Asian) is not the only way of racial thinking.
The Nazis saw Slavs as a race that they considered to be inferior to themselves to who they referred as "aryan".
Doesn't that all show one plain fact? That racism is utterly stupid?
And to repeat the initial question somehow: Is it racism if someone hates me because I am German?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Lt.Col. Kilgore
Though anti-rascism is also strange when taken to excess. When someone says they don't like Jews people take this to be that they're anti-Semitic. Not necessarily. Someone can be Jewish and not of the Semitic race right? They might be a white convert. Just as a Semitic person can be an atheist (I know plenty!) and they aren't Jews because in order to be a Jew you must adhere to that religion. Therefore to me saying you don't like Jews (which isn't necessarily any more logical) is like saying you don't like Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. who can be of any race (just like Jews!). Saying someone is anti-Semitic, must then, also include Syrians, Lebanese, and many other (Semitic) ethnic groups.

Actualy jews, who are the only semetic pepople left (arabs and lebanonese aren't as they come from other places), have some genetical similarities and so they can be considered an ethnic group. You might've heard about studies that found the same genes in 'cohen' and 'levi' families around the world.
'Jew' is a comlicated word. It can describe religion, an ethnic group or a nationality. I'm a jew because I'm a part of the jewish people and because I have a jewish background. Even though, I'm an etheist.


"So you see Jews as a race (like most people do). Are the Dutch a race as well?"

No. The dutch are a mixture of people from different places and different ethnic groups, like Israelis are. Jews have the same geneticial background as for a very long time they only married other jews (like all other ethnic groups untill the latest centuries) and so there are a lot of things similar in almost all jews (the nose, for example. I don't have it and most jews actually don't but a lot of jews do have that eagle-beak-like nose)

However I don't think there are many internal differences between the groups and even if there are they'll soon disapear in the liberal world.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by G-Man
"So you see Jews as a race (like most people do). Are the Dutch a race as well?"

No. The dutch are a mixture of people from different places and different ethnic groups, like Israelis are. Jews have the same geneticial background as for a very long time they only married other jews (like all other ethnic groups untill the latest centuries) and so there are a lot of things similar in almost all jews (the nose, for example. I don't have it and most jews actually don't but a lot of jews do have that eagle-beak-like nose)

Now that is a very common definition. But if you think about it, does it make sense? They may have married other Jews since a certain time but what before it.
Regardless if you believe in evolution or creation it is very likely that all humans come from more or less the same genetic background. So at what point (in time) you start differentiating between races? From a logical point of view you could pick any point you like. That's why it is stupid.

Btw, you say the nose is not a racist stereotype? After all portraing a Jew with that kind of nose is about the worst racist thing you can do here in Germany today...