1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

What is the best tech grab you ever got with the Oracle?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Odin2006, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    46,747
    :lol:

    I actually got it from the start...that's what makes it a challenge that I couldn't resist. I'm still not sure about the 'not impossible' part though. I did get close enough on diety to be almost sure I could do it on immortal, given a good start, the right leader, and the right opponents...but even with all things in my favor it built on turn 65 and I just can't see beating that with the bulb since it requires a 40 turn great lighthouse.

    I'm also intrigued by setting to chieftain and seeing if I can oracle a future tech, but I haven't tried that yet.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    T40 GLH is absolutely possible. Try America and research Sailing -> Masonry -> Bronzeworking or Sailing -> Bronzeworking -> Masonry. Build 2 Workers and optimize the Lighthouse whip to be 2pop with max OF. If that's not enough, take Roosevelt, he's IND.

    I personally think that playing a PHI leader will be faster though because the GP takes longer than the build of the GLH.
     
  3. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    46,747
    I tried Roosevelt first on monarch. Problem is that without philosophical the great merchant takes fifty turns, meaning he needs the great lighthouse on turn 15. What is needed to pull off this objective is a philosophical industrial leader...which I'm guessing is why there isn't a philosophical industrious leader. They would be a game breaker.
     
  4. yturk39

    yturk39 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    232
    Feudalism.

    The sad thing is, I thought I was being stealthy and slick using my longbowmen to repel barbs and not switching to Monarchy so the other Civs couldn't tell where I was tech-wise (nobody had alphabet yet).

    ...it never occurred to me that opening a Diplomacy trade screen would reveal Vassal State as a trade option...

    DOH!
     
  5. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,709
    My style of play is that I play with a lot of random settings and try to get the best overall win ratio, therefore I tend to lean away from gambit strategies that would be powerful but have a low chance of success, and lean towards strategies that are more dependable, thus I would never try to pull this off in an actual game. The only way it would happen for me is if I got the GM and no one had yet built the oracle, I would consider it.

    By the way - is machinery really all that powerful of a tech? I mean, windmills help with very hilly land and watermills are powerful in the late game, but not so much when they first appear. Crossbows are good but usually even horse archers are a better all around unit, and certainly elephants are. I remember in my early Civ days I would bee-line machinery for crossbows to get an edge when I had good tech pace but I rarely do that now as I find catapults/horse archers/elephants or even just catapults/axes to be much better at dealing with enemy stacks.
     
  6. paulcarri

    paulcarri Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    The last game i played was england, world map..where i had to be aggressive to compensate for lack of land

    I got machinery ultra early ..but ended up using axemen/cats to fight, because for the defenders i faced, and the hammer cost they seemed better
     
  7. Odin2006

    Odin2006 Apolytonian

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    423
    Location:
    Moorhead, MN, USA
    You need marble and are either an Industrious or start with Mysticism, IMO.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    One needs neither of that. Building the Quarry takes too long, as does researching Masonry, and Oracle on top is so cheap, that building (chopp-whipping) it without Marble is not only np, but also most always the fastest way.

    IND is nice and makes things easier, but Oracle without is perfectly possible.

    Mysticism is such a small tech, one can research it in a few turns, so it doesn't matter, as Oracle (on Deity) goes at around 2000 BC. Someimtes it's 2400 BC, yes, that's stupid, I even saw 2800 BC once, that's impossible, but if you've clicked the link, Oracle 1000 BC is shown, that's the latest I've seen yet.

    A good time to start researching for it is 3000 BC, if finishing it at 2000 BC, one will get it in 85% of the cases, as long as Isabella isn't in the game. With Isa, maybe 70% of the cases.

    Simplest and fastest way is Food-tech -> Commerce-tech -> Production-tech -> beeline Priesthood -> Writing -> CoL

    Best way to get something big and be on the safe side, is Agri -> TW -> Pottery -> Writing -> Alpha -> Trade for everything -> chop-whip Oracle -> Currency.

    Hth,

    Seraiel
     
  9. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,047
    Location:
    In Dystopia
    Lol
    (And worst of all, I know you don't play lower levels)

    Mine's Paper.
     
  10. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Messages:
    2,426
    Location:
    Norman Oklahoma
    Try this: Industrious leader, island start, at least one of fishing, wheel or mining as a starting tech.

    Fishing (to build workboat), mining, BW, masonry, build (chop) GW while researching Sailing, chop GLH. You've lost Oracle about 90% of the time (partly because you need pottery for MC), but sometimes you can get it late. Most of the time your first GP will be a Spy, but sometimes it's a GM, and if it arrives before the Oracle, bulb MC, and if by sheer luck you get the the Oracle, bulb Machinery.

    What I'm really doing is getting the GLH because I'm trying to see how it works on an island map. The answer is not that well, because it so often takes a long time to establish a trade route to anyone else. I don't expect to get the Oracle since it's usually gone by 1300 BC.
     
  11. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,504
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Oops, I finished Oracle one turn before completing Code of Laws research (on vanilla), so missed oracleing Civil Service. :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    15,602
    Yup, Sid, Agriculture sounds like a winner.
     
  13. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,504
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    :lol:
    well, look at all those flood plains - surely I should be building farms there

    pretty sure I took metalcasting
     
  14. TezaPsyborg

    TezaPsyborg Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Kent, England, UK
    I cant remember the last time I got anything OTHER than metalcasting from the oracle. It's almost always the most bulb-expensive at that time so it makes the best pay-off for that free tech choice.
     
  15. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Sometimes, delaying Oracle to grab a better tech is worth it @ TezaPsyborg . If you beeline Alpha, you can see which (or if!) Civs got Priesthood, and have already begun on building the Oracle, or not.

    I agree on Metalcasting being a really good tech, however, something like Civil Service (some hundred years later) is a huge advantage.

    I btw. just Oracled that one 1800 BC from a single Gold start. I'm still wondering why I said things like "needs multipled Golds" and so earlier, I'm sure it's even possible without any Gold at all.
     
  16. TezaPsyborg

    TezaPsyborg Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Kent, England, UK
    Sure thing, I've done it in the past, it's just that since moving to regularly playing on Emperor/Immortal level over two years ago I can't remember ever getting anything else :lol: I'm usually in a hurry to get the Oracle, an expensive tech is a big advantage early on, so Oracle is always chop and :whipped: as soon as possible. Around that time I'm always planning on clobbering my nearest neighbour so the forges come in handy ;)
     
  17. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,166
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    I guess that'd be T67 Paper. Game was posted quite recently:

    Spoiler :


    Hehehe! Now we can trade maps! :banana:
     
  18. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    There will come games, when your coordination will be so good, that you'll oracle Civil Service and know, that the AI had absolutely 0 chance of getting it ;) I already gave the way towards you in my last post ;) .

    It's not always the right choice to go for Oracle, and it can be a great investment that can be lost if failing at it, but "to risk is what to gain" , and with the way that I described (that btw. I didn't find myself but got from analyzing games of WastinTime ) , there risk is like really really small, while the gain (go for Currency at least!) can be huge.

    MC + Forges are usually only the right choice if being IND, a normal Forge takes more hammers to pay for itself than the troops that are needed for the first (maybe the even the first two) targets need.
     
  19. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,954
    Gender:
    Male
    Nice.

    You have to play that one out on a Huge map, it's even more hillarious when you get techs like Monotheism in exchange for a map :> .
     
  20. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,166
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    Thanks, I thought it was pretty cool, too :lol:
    Too bad the map was Normal Pangaea... Education is only Alpha + Maths and a Great Scientist further away from Paper... but that start didn't allow for this kind of pick (Deity diff).
     

Share This Page