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What is the formula to calculate the incease in science costs from gaining a city?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Realism Invictus' started by jafink, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. jafink

    jafink King

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    Hi guys, I'm having a ton of fun with the mod, so big thank you to the creators and the community here.

    I have noticed that the increase in science costs hits pretty large. I'm currently playing the smaller version of the giant map as Austronesia. It is awesome! At this point in the game I have about 12 cities and it is about 960 AD. Each new city I get is definitely not helping at this point. It will probably take 100 turns or more before a new city becomes a net positive. Between needing to build so many happy/health buildings, and trying to produce enough gold not just to make up for increased maintenance and civic upkeep, but also to make up for the increased tech costs.

    So anyways I'm just wondering what the formula is for the increase.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    It's a flat percentage increase per city. The exact % is dependent on the map size and can be checked in map size entries in the pedia.
     
  3. jafink

    jafink King

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    Thanks for the quick response. It says it is 9% per city on huge.

    Does this mean a 1000 beaker tech will wast 1900 beakers when I have 10 cities. Or does it mean a 1000 beaker tech will cost 2367 beakers.

    Basically is the additional percentage increase from each city "compounded" with previous increases? Like 1000 beakers * 1.09 * 1.09 * 1.09... etc.

    Or is it just the total percentage from all cities added together, just multiplied once. Like 1000 beakers * (1 + (number of cities * 0.09))
     
  4. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    I think it's the second. I wasn't the person who implemented the formula, but it shouldn't be compounded.
     
  5. jafink

    jafink King

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    Do you know of any way I could look up the complete formula for tech costs? Because when I go to the civlopedia it says Printing Press costs 1050 beakers. In my current game on Monarch difficulty, on the RI World Map Large scenario (the smaller of the 2 giant worldmaps), I have 13 cities total. It is showing a total cost of 9929 beakers to research Printing Press. I want to see how this total cost is arrived at.

    Looking up thing in the Civlopedia shows that monarch difficulty has 115% research costs, Giant map size (which is actually much smaller than the actual size of this special Scenario map I think.) Giant map size shows 100% research costs, and 8% increased research costs per city. With these numbers I have no idea how the cost of Printing Press in my game goes from 1050 beakers in the Civlopedia to 9929 beakers in game.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    EDIT: Oh yeah and I should mention I am playing on the recommended "Realistic" game speed
     
  6. jafink

    jafink King

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    OK I am not sure how my Civlopedia was showing 1050 for the cost of Printing Press. I started a new game on the same map and setting and it costs 3686 at the start of the game with only 1 city.

    So now it appears that it is a multiplier of 8% or 9% per city, and it is compounded. That's how with 12 cities my tech cost is about 2.5 times higher than at the start, compared to the 1.9 - 2.1 times higher it would be if it was not compounded.

    And that seems to make it so that at a certain point in the game new cities will almost never be worth it from a research point of view. If you have 20 cites, adding one more city that is as good as your average city will increase your research by 5%, but it will increase your research costs by 8% or 9%.
     
  7. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    Sounds about right; pedia shows the base cost, which is then, even with 1 city, adjusted to the game speed and world size. Realistic speed alone is 310% research costs.

    If you're playing one of the World Maps, they're using the special map size that puts stricter malus on research than large/huge map sizes. It's the (don't select) one, with 15% per city research cost (due to these maps having much more resources per city leading to more productive cities on average, and also due to there being more civs with more possibility for open borders tech spread). If that were compounded, you'd have the costs around 22000 by the time you reached 13 cities. It is linear, but the base increase for that particular map is higher than you assumed.

    Yeah, that was generally the effect we were trying for - there being an optimal number of cities for research purpose, with everything beyond slowing you down. Late game, having more cities would always be better than having less otherwise, while now it's a production/research tradeoff.
     
  8. jafink

    jafink King

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    OK thanks for the reply! If it is linear, and not compounded, that makes me very very happy!
     

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