Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Illusion13, Jan 10, 2008.
Thats pretty offensive. Do you know what you're typing while you typ it?
Mmh ? Yes, i think i know very well what i am typing. Since one century, the biggest users of terrorists units in RL who fight non-invaders are Arabs (or so-called Arabs). So, a Terrorist unit for the fourth age look good, for me.
Why not call it a fanatic rebel? There were people like this as early as the Ottoman Empire who fought the Empire to free Iraq. Or the fanatic guerilla...
I think putting in Terrorists into the game would cause way too much controversy and even put American bias into the game.
F-15 is the undefeated world champ of air superiority, having never been bested in combat, a truly awesome airplane. It's just not well-suited to a game that's pretty much over before they come into play. Unfortunately, almost any UU for America would be modern, as the mid to late 20th century was its golden age. The one suggestion of Minuteman wouldn't be too bad, maybe a souped up musketman with stats of say 4/4/1(a slow samurai). Other possibilities for pre-modern era would be dragoons, the soldiers who rode into the battle area and fought dismounted with rifles. (Remember the old cavalry icon for civ2? That was a fair depiction of a dragoon.) It could come with Nationalism and be a rifleman with extra movement 4/6/2 stats.
In the modern era, the other unique weapons/units that are American would be the Navy SEAL or the supercarrier.
I guess the thread has moved to a darker territory. I think equating Arabs to terrorists is a bad thing, there are hundreds thousands of law-abiding arabs for every gun-toting lunatic with a grudge against western ideology. And then saying Americans are bad is just as jingoistic. I can't blame any american for being angry about unprovoked murder of innocent civilians. I'm still a bit angry myself, but I do my best to not blame a whole people or religion for the acts of a few misguided individuals. If I was a moderator of this forum, I would probably be tempted to close this thread, or at least warn everyone that this forum is international in scope. Offensive statements should be kept private.
The F-15 was first deployed in 1972, and is still in use. It has a variety of weapons (as missiles and guns) and was intended as an improvement on existing fighter planes, especially the F-4 and F-14. Though not the best unit in reality to use in aerial dogfighting versus lightweight fighters, it is still used to attack bombers and surface targets.
I agree, though, that it is not the best example of American military to use as a UU. I have made suggestions, though your idea of the Minuteman would definitely work.
The F-15 was never meant to dogfight, that was the job of its little brother, the F-16. The F-15 is a "first look-first kill" fighter. Detect enemies from long to medium range and destroy them with missiles. A dogfight is a failure of its' mission. And just like its predecessor, the F-4, it is more the pilot than the plane. With proper training, kill ratios in Vietnam got much better. The movie "Top Gun" was a fictionalized look at the programs that still exist today within the US military to train pilots how to win. Heavy fighters can dogfight, they just shouldn't have to. I would happily choose an F-15 over any other fighter to defend my skies.
The USSR did indeed come the closest to domination, Britain was second. I'm not sure where 25% came into the picture (unless you meant 66%, the domination limit) but a quarter of the earth is a great accomplishment. If you don't count Antarctica all three, Rus, England, and the Mongols reached it (w/ Antarctica just Rus and the UK though due to rounding errors the latter may have just missed it). The Russians fell just short of 40 million km2 (and 30%)
F15 : Then, adding a +1 in ATT, maybe ? And don't think the game is finished for me when fourth age arise : I begin to attack with tanks, cannons and bombers
I'm generally in peace until that...
Terrorist / bomb truck / fanatic rebel : I'm sorry you think i want to be "offensive". I have not hate against "arabs".
But it's true this civ used terror against others since it's birth. You can't say the opposite.
I don't say "arabs = terrorists". But "terrorist units", as "invisible ground-based missile", are very used by Arabs as a civ. And they are content with it.
I really don't see the problem. We have Communism (how much death ? 100 millions ? 200 ?), the game use and encourage strongly the use of slavery and players seem to LIKE it until fourth age, we can kill our own civilians easily, and Frenchs are pink, and you find "offensive" i suggest a "terrorist" unit for a civ ? Mommy...
American UU : Oh, as Industrial UU, we can have a monitor : After all, they are the firsts to use them, no ?).
As a preface, let it be known certain arabic tribes have only practiced terroist behavior in the last decade or so. (A little more if you count the guns the US gave them to kill soviets)
First of all, it's a specific tribe within the arabs who support terrorist organizations, secondly, the same tactics are used by guerilla warriors around the enitire world.
And secondly, the arabs produced some of the finest mounted warriors in the history of the world, so go read a book. THe arabs aren't exactly in thier "Golden Age" right now, and thats where these units are derived from. Samurai (Medival Japan), Manowars (THe British Empire), Legionaires (Roman Empire). See a trend? I do.
Thirdly, only certain tribes of arabs actually are open supporters of terrorism. You might aswell say the celt UU is a terrorist too, or that the japanese UU is a kamazee pilot, or even that the german UU is a gestapo officer.
On the matter of four, We have communism and facism, because they exist as viable and historically important governments. How many deaths have despotism and monarchy caused? Hmm?
Fithward bound, slavery is also historically prominent. Every culture, at one point in history, has practiced the enslaving of whole cultures. From the egyptians to the germans. Civilians are also killed throughout history. Crack a history book.
And, since the french being pink is such a massive imbedded message, we should obviously point fingures at firaxis for blatant racism. Those monsters.
Tip #3: Take lots and lots of showers. Only winners shower.
Maybe +2 attack but -1 defense? It would not be the only UU with this arrangement. Or maybe an improved bombardment rating? As has been discussed, the F-15 is not for close-range combat. It's for targeting specific objects and taking them out quickly. Quite a number of Civ players (or at least Civfantics) agree that an air unit as a UU is ridiculous, but on the other hand there is no other modern-age UU that I can think of that is actually used in the game. Would anyone have a suggestion for a different modern unit to use, American or otherwise?
Modern UU's.....I don't know that any country has had a modern era golden age, unless you would count the economic flowerings in the far east, which for some countries like Japan and China would be at least their second golden age. None of those seem to have a well-known weapon that also is a bit better than their counterparts. The Soviet tanks, missiles, and aircraft that were fielded at the height of the cold war were excellent weapons, but not exactly tied to a golden age. Same goes for the British Harrier jet, which was certainly unique. Modern age UU's are not going to fly.... pun intended.
Well, the F-15 is kind of a random unit, since the americans never really developed a special weapon.
It would be really cool if there was a black watch unit for the brits though...
The 25% comes from Britain's total surface area at its peak.
This I disagree with, America has had quite a few firsts in weapon development. The first ironclad warships (invented by both sides at the same time during the civil war), the first automatic weapon (the Gatling, which has design elements still in use), the first nuclear powered submarines, and actually the first military submarine. The nuclear aircraft carriers fielded by the US are unmatched weapons, carrying up to 75 strike aircraft. The nuclear ballistic missile submarines become the 3rd most powerful country(nuclear weapon-wise) when they leave port. If anyone has a modern era UU, it's definitely America. I forgot to mention the Apache attack helicopter, which was pretty much unmatched for some time at destroying tanks (remember the gulf war turkey shoot?)
It should be the F-16, though. It's the single most used fighter on Earth. I think...
EDIT: I just put this in the wrong thread. Crud. Curseth thy name internets explorer!
That rings a bell for me...
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