[GS] What is the purpose of obsolete units?

Taa

Warlord
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When a new units get available it automatically replace the old in the city building menu. If I don't have the resources for the new units, the new unit get grayed out and the old stay available for some time until obsolete.
This mechanic works great, so I wonder what is the idea/reason/purpose behind making units obsolete when they get replaced automatically when new units is available?

Can it have something to do with Ai and how they build units, can Ai build old units even when new is available and they have resources to build the new ones?
 
Well, it does prevent a glut of units in the production queue, but to some extent it just seems more odd to be building warriors with clubs or oar-powered galleys in the atomic era to a greater degree than, say, a library or shrine.
 
That's not right, the latest unit replace earlier units, only in case of missing resources for new units will latest unit be available, then new units will be grayed out. And when resources is available old units is removed again.
 
It's a pain when you don't have the resource needed for the new unit type, but need to build something.
 
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This mechanic works great, so I wonder what is the idea/reason/purpose behind making units obsolete when they get replaced automatically when new units is available?

I think it is also to prevent people from cheaply producing outdated units then immediately use gold to upgrade (and taking advantage of policy cards to reduce the upgrade costs).

I exploit this whenever I can - I usually have lots of gold while production is harder to come by, so I always prefer to produce old cheap units then upgrade using gold as soon as they spawn - I’ll admit it feels gamey.
 
Lets say you get attacked early enough in the game that you are vulnerable if you lose a unit or two. Lets also assume you lose those units. You have just recently discovered iron working so swordsmen are what you are building melee wise. Fantastic right? Yes...and no. If you don't have access to iron you can't build any melee unit in that line. No swordsman, and no warrior either! But it makes sense that if you cannot build the cutting edge unit due to resource loss, you'd go back to building a more inferior unit. That is better than nothing, and what would happen in real life. Maybe you had a source of iron, but it was on the edge of your empire, and despite being protected it was the area initially hit. Giving people the ability to build something in that line is better than nothing.
 
@nzcamel I'd just point out that warriors don't go obsolete until Gunpowder. So you're example isn't exactly accurate, though I suppose your overall point stands.

Ahh, I think I misunderstood the OP. Ta
 
it makes sense that if you cannot build the cutting edge unit due to resource loss, you'd go back to building a more inferior unit.

I really dislike how players can build units from earlier eras. If I can’t build Muskets, and I can’t build Swordsmen, realistically I’m not going to build the Fred Flintstone Club Warriors. I mean, my society realistically won’t indefinitely retain the knowledge to build certain historical units, and you’d really struggle to find any citizens willing to fight muskets with clubs.

I mean, I get Civ isn’t a historical simulator and sometimes mechanics have to yield to gameplay, but I think the game already has a good solution if you don’t have resources. Just build units that don’t need resources - ranged and anti-cav. Indeed, being able to build obsolete units somewhat undermines the USP for ranged and anti-cav.

Anyway. Not a big deal. And part of the issue is really just because of unit gaps, which will likely fall away if we get more content that fills in those gaps.
 
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Throughout time countries have raised citizen militia. If you haven't got the technology, the time or the resources you just get the people with an odd assortment of weapons that are readily available.
 
Throughout time countries have raised citizen militia. If you haven't got the technology, the time or the resources you just get the people with an odd assortment of weapons that are readily available.

Not really. If you can’t arm citizens with modern rifles, you’re not really going to send them out with Iron Swords and Wooden Shields - you’re not even going to have the technology to make those anymore. You’re certainly not going to send them out with Clubs and Loincloths. More likely would be whatever civilian firearms you have, whatever other makeshift weapons you have, and homemade petrol bombs and or IEDs.

The whole resource thing is a bit wobbly anyway. No one is digging up Niter for muskets - you manufacture the Niter yourself. The real bottleneck for muskets is more likely steel (and therefore Iron). Horses were a geographically limited Resource at various points in time, just ask the Aztecs. But once you get some horses, you can basically breed your own (eg Apache). Although maybe Civ VI does represent that a little - not every horse unit needs horses, sometimes Iron or Steel is the requirement instead.

Anyway. I mostly like the Resource System, although it could use a tweak here or there if only for flavour. But being able to build previous Era units is daft. If you can’t build the unit you want because of Resources, then build AC and Ranged instead and deal with it. Or buy the Resources you need. At most, you should only be able to build one era back.

Separately, I wish Civ had more of a jump from Non-Gunpowder units to Gunpowder. The invention of Gunpowder should feel like more of a jump.


@nzcamel I'd just point out that warriors don't go obsolete until Gunpowder.

I’m not clear when all the various units obsolete. Might be the rules already deal with some of my points above.
 
It also doesn't make sense that you can somehow invent swordsman when you don't have iron or musketman when you don't have niter.
Currently you can even invent jet fighters without discovering flight (or aluminium), so...
 
Not really. If you can’t arm citizens with modern rifles, you’re not really going to send them out with Iron Swords and Wooden Shields - you’re not even going to have the technology to make those anymore.

What are you talking about? It's a historical fact. How can you not have the technology to make something you once made?
 
How can you not have the technology to make something you once made?

As a society we really do lose access to technology all the time. No one really knows how to make Damascus steel any more, for example.

However, what I was getting at was that it would be pretty hard to find many Swordsmiths these days. Or Coopers. Not many blacksmiths either. You could maybe find some niche artisans that still do these things, but you’re not going to be able to roll out Swords or Barrels etc at scale on short notice. You don’t have enough people that know how to do it and you don’t have the infrastructure. You can’t just go down to the car factory and say “okay boys, flick the switch from Sedan to Sword” and start pumping out Rapiers.

Actually. Speaking of Swords. How would anyone know how to use them? They’re not actually super user friendly to use. Or bows and arrows for that matter. Make a lot more sense to arm people with clubs, knifes and explosives.
 
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@acluewithout I'm not talking about specific weapons but the sort of weapons a militia would use. Ad hoc things like baseball bats, chains, metal bars, hand farm tools that sort of thing.

Although over 200 years after they were first used bayonets are still in use today.
 
I really wish the game would let me finish the unit I'm currently building, before making it obsolete. If I'm working on a horseman that will be ready in a few turns, I don't want it changing to a 20 turn courser when I'm not looking. I ordered a horseman. If they can't deliver a horseman, then at least give me the production back so I can use it on something useful, rather than ploughing it all into some unit I didn't even ask for.
 
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