Discussion in 'World History' started by Fox Mccloud, Jan 17, 2005.
I say Poland. They held off invasions since the middle ages.
So have one hell of a lot of other countries
yeah, there are many nations that are consider very brave. so hard to list all, i would say infact all.
but here are some i think very highly off.
Vietnam - resisting the US imperialism and trying to forge a nation of their own and belief.
China - resisting many invasions and the courage to go against the odds and died for their beliefs and ideas.
Korea - manage to forge an identity and sandwich between 2 giants
Japan - A war nation. Thou dont really agreed with bushido, still give them the credits.
Iran - willing to die for their cause and resist enemies of greater power
Russia - a brave nation
Germany - Rising again and again from the ashes of war. great nation.
England/UK - Willing to fight for power and own survivial. Survival of the most adaptable.
Switzerland - Arm to the teeth.
Israel - willing to fight, aiming to win, by hook or by crook and against all odds.
USA- they think they are brave, many disagreed. I give them some credits for volunteered in WWI, WWII and some other causes.
Cuba - one of the bravest in America. Salute.
Canada - a great nation, willing to fight and defend what they think is right.
Australia - As above. but scare of immigrants and germs.
Taiwan - standing up to china.
Israel - pursecuted for thousands of years, when they finally get who there sourounded by angry people.
Britain - world war 2, not giving up when all was lost.
Russia- Same as britain but lots of times over history.
Veitnam - Takeing on america.
France - lol nah just kidding
New Zealand - I live here, plus being willing to have our most powerfull allies abandon us over our princeables, we say no nukes america disowns us and france sends spys to sink our ships and murder our citizens then says that europe will embargo us if we dont let their murdering baby killing ummmm........ childpornographing Frogmen go home.
Off the top of my head I would say Korea. They fought off an incredible number of invasions, all of them by superior foes. They withstood the Mongols three times until succumbing after a fourth invasion (a feat which no one else can claim). They managed to keep from being overrun by Japan several times before finally going under, and even through these harsh times they retained national identity. They fought off centuries of chinese imperialism, and despite challenges, forged ahead and done more than quite a few other nations have done.
They did even better. Korea is possibly the only nation hit by the Mongols and technically not defeated.
Sure they were overrun, pillaged and plundered 'til the cows came home, but the Korean court retreated to an island just off the coast, and since they had ships and the Mongols had none, they never surrendered.
This island was so close to the mainland that Mongols and Korean would stand on opposite shores as hurl insults at oneanother.
Eventually the war cooled off and the Korean and Mongol royals started intermarrying, making Korea a pretty important ally. The ships used for the attempted invasions of Japan were to a large extent Korean.
That being Kangwha? I believed the Mongols eventually overran it after some time, but I could be wrong.
Why's that? France has been through more wars than any other modern state, and faced several hostile coalitions. More than once have they fought alone against all other major european countries. Then, in the words of another forum member "In 1918 a warring nation decided it had had enough", and because of what happened in WWII, France is now the target of all these ridiculous jokes.
I agree heartily with Poland and Korea. The Poles not only survived countless Russian and German invasions, but they also played an importnat role in bringing down both of those empires: The Poles contributed an incredible amount to the allied cause for a nation that was occupied, and they're revolts in the late 80's and early 90's help to break apart Russias empire. Woe to those who mess with the Poles, they'll get you in the end.
Korea has also been justly mentioned several times, they have been in a similar situation to Polands for more than 2000 years, I know many Koreans and their some of the most fiercely nationalistic people I know.
I'd like to add the Native tribes of Western North America, sure they got a pretty raw deal, but while many native Americans on th East coast who were compleatly obliterated, the Plains Natives fought until they were able to at least hold onto some land, and today despite all the problems, they're populations are larger than at the time of the European arrival. They may not have been able to prevent massive European immigration, but they survived overwhelming odds when many of their fellow Americans were destoyed.
I'm in Taiwan right now, and these people are amazingly brave, they keep voting for political parties that seem to piss off China more and more, and despite being less than 1/100th of Chinas population, they're military would probably destory a large part of China's military force, even if they couldn't hold off an invasion.
No you're not, they were overrun sure enough. The Mongols destroyed most buildings from pre-1200. The Japanese destroyed the remnanats in the late 16th c. It's just that the Koreans technically never surrendered. They were defeated but wouldn't admit it and in the end the even the Mongols must have gotten bored with the situation.
I have some fears this thread might mutate into another of those "English-speaking-members-of-the-WWII-alliance-congratulating-themselves", with a nod to the Russians and a kind word for the defeated germans. And naturally sticking it to the French.
A nation being brave doesn't mean it's useful for the rest of humanity. Ancien régime France was beaten down by the Habsburg empire in the 16th c. and then against all odds, and allying itself to the Ottoman empire, it staged a spectacular comeback as top nation in Europe. Later Revolutionary France single handeldly faced down the monarchies of Europe, carrying over into Napoleon.
If you take part of the traditional Anglo take on this bit of history it was all A Bad Bad Thing. (A powerful lot of the historical sensibilities on these boards seem to be British-American.)
Of course if you had asked the French and the Germans about the British empire in the 19th c. they would have told you it was as perverse as it was impressive.
Personally I find the notion that a nation can be described as "brave" or otherwise pointless. Even in the Italian armed forces during WW2 there were remarkably brave soldiers and formations who fought to the best of their ability and well, and I'm sure we could find examples of the opposite amongst even the highest thought of professional armies and nations.
I'm pretty darn sure we'd have said the same about theirs
However I would add that I never have supported the "bash France on WW2" theory. I get my fun on bashing them about the Napoleonic wars
Finland is considered brave considering they gave e Soviet Union one hell of a fight during the WW2
Much to your credit!
One should bash nations on their strongest features. Going for whatever chinks in their armour you can find (all nations have them) is a bit cheap. Or worse, it's not cricket!
They've been giving most who have fought them hell through history, though mostly fighting for the Swedes or the Russians.
Kind of the Irish of Scandinavia.
Since when did the USA volunteer for WW2?
Japan attacked them and the Germans declared war upon them...
As for a country that epitomises people being brave: I'd choose Scots as hopeless, but brave and the Russians as having stock that is amongst the bravest of the brave
There are many Americans and Chinese and Japanese that could be considered "brave" if they weren't either simply too dim to notice realise they are in danger or "mad".
Scotland the Brave
Hark, when the night is falling
Hear, hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and proudly calling
Down through the Glen.
There where the hills are sleeping
Now feel the blood a-leaping
High as the spirits
Of the old highland men.
Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards
Land of my high endeavor
Land of the shining river
Land of my heart forever
Scotland the brave!
High in the misty highlands
Out by the purple islands
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies
Wild are the winds to meet you
Staunch are the friends that greet you
Kind as the light that shines
From fair maiden's eyes.
Far off in sunlit places
Sad are the Scottish faces
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain.
Where tropic skies are beaming,
Love sets the heart a-dreaming,
Longing and dreaming
for the homeland again.
Ahhh, so this is why the British are always getting attacked on so many things
That counts out the Scots, they're always too drunk to notice danger
Maybe we should have a thread on high-minded patriotic lyrics of various nations?
Bit of translation problem though.
Here's a Swedish ditty...
Werner von Heidenstam, Nobel laureate (the Kipling of Sweden if you like):
"Sweden - Sweden - Sweden,
the place of our longing,
our home on earth.
Now the bells of cattle jangle,
where once fire-lit armies were seen,
and deeds became sagas.
But hand by hand,
we swear, as of old,
the ancient oaths of allegiance."
Etc. etc. for quite a bit. Beautiful tune (sort of starts very slow an builds). Was proposed as the national anthem, but is impossible to sing, so they scrapped that idea.
That looks very similar to the current EU2 game I'm playing as France. Only replace ottomans with swedes and germans.
Separate names with a comma.