What is your starting strategy (BNW)?

[Holyhesk]

Been searching through the forums for a simular topic about how players like to start off in BNW. No luck finding anything so thought i would start a thread about how we start off. Moderators feel free to move this to an appropriate thread if this has already been discussed!

Here is quick rundown of how i generally start off in most of my games.

- I tend to have a bit of conquest in mind off the bat
- First techs are Pottery then Animal Hus.
- First Production from Capital is Scout > Monument > Scout (good for exploring and gets my culture up and running towards my first SP)
- As i have opened with Pottery it gives me access to Granary and Shrine which i try to produce next
- After Animal Hus i beeline for Construction (Composite Bowman are pretty OP and i get Archery on the way to Construction)
- First SP is Liberty going down the left side of the tree for the Production bonus and the Free Settler.
- I will Steal a worker from a nearby City State or even DoW a CV and steal his worker.
- After Masonry i always try to build Pyramids (This wonder has excellent Synergy with Liberty, workers will build things so fast) This is the only wonder i have in mind early on. If i miss it it's no major problem.
- With the free Settler i will usually have another on the way from the capital. Early on will have 3-4 cities.
- After Construction Writing is a must for me to get Science going. Then i can start building Libraries in my cities.
- By now i should have like i said about 3-4 Cities with about 4-5 Composite Bowman. Maybe 3 Workers who work like the wind with Liberty and Pyramids. (Connect Cities with roads, Liberty skill increases Happiness by 1 and of course you get Gold for connecting to the Capital)
- Once Liberty is complete i like to just open Tradition for Border growth. This can really help your Land ownership demographic.
- Now i'm considering Conquest. I will look for a CV that has been building a lot of wonders. In a recent game Austria had built 8 wonders compared to my 1. They were my neighbours which i guess is kinda lucky. I smashed her capital taking those wonders off her. She even had The Great Wall but i managed to pull it off
- After opening Tradition i like to fill Commerce and Rationalism as they become available.


Don't really have a set victory condition in mind. I just use this Strategy, then decide where i want my game to go.

I Play huge maps on standard speed Emporer Difficulty.

I don't think i'm a great player by any means, i do a small amount of Micro-Managment while using this strategy. It's a lot of fun though, much more fun than the Tradition snoozefest.

What is your Strategy for the first half of the game? be as brief or as detailed as you like, very interested to read others Strategies.

 

[Furret]

Have you ever thought about getting the tradition opener as your first SP?

I can understand the argument that it will raise all of your future policy costs, but if you plan to get it eventually anyway, it's best earlier.
The first policy is 25, second is 30, third is 60. Assuming no culture ruins, you'll get your first policy around turn 20 (depending on how quickly you build your monument).
Tradition opener gives you +3 in capital, which will net you +6 per turn.
Liberty opener gives you +1 in all cities, which will net you +4 per turn.

While the immediate benefit of this would only be getting the next policy 2 or 3 turns earlier (while being technically a policy behind), after going tradition -> liberty you will have +7 per turn as opposed to +4. I'm too lazy to work out the math, but I'm pretty sure this pulls ahead by the time you finish liberty, likely earlier. If I'm right, the only benefit to delaying the Tradition opener would be an earlier settler (maybe 3-ish turns?) since you plan on opening tradition at some point in the game anyway.

Of course opening tradition this early opens up another line of possibilities - not building a monument to get an earlier shrine and a good pick of pantheons while dipping further into tradition to get Legalism (free monuments). This will definitely delay everything in Liberty, but the tradeoff would be a faster shrine, as well as of course the free monuments in your next 3 cities (probably saving 10-ish turns of production each).

The only glitch in the Legalism path is that your scout finishes before pottery does, but pottery finishes early enough that you don't have time to build anything else completely before it's time to make a shrine. I don't prioritize scouting very much, so I often spend those few turns on a worker and go straight into a shrine when it's available. However I also don't usually go into liberty anymore, so hard building a worker when you know you have 3 free ones coming (assuming pyramids) is not worth the maintenance costs. Since you build two scouts, a second could be built here which probably only delays the shrine by 3-5 turns depending on growth and production.

 

[Holyhesk]

Have you ever thought about getting the tradition opener as your first SP?

I can understand the argument that it will raise all of your future policy costs, but if you plan to get it eventually anyway, it's best earlier.
The first policy is 25, second is 30, third is 60. Assuming no culture ruins, you'll get your first policy around turn 20 (depending on how quickly you build your monument).
Tradition opener gives you +3 in capital, which will net you +6 per turn.
Liberty opener gives you +1 in all cities, which will net you +4 per turn.

While the immediate benefit of this would only be getting the next policy 2 or 3 turns earlier (while being technically a policy behind), after going tradition -> liberty you will have +7 per turn as opposed to +4. I'm too lazy to work out the math, but I'm pretty sure this pulls ahead by the time you finish liberty, likely earlier. If I'm right, the only benefit to delaying the Tradition opener would be an earlier settler (maybe 3-ish turns?) since you plan on opening tradition at some point in the game anyway.

Of course opening tradition this early opens up another line of possibilities - not building a monument to get an earlier shrine and a good pick of pantheons while dipping further into tradition to get Legalism (free monuments). This will definitely delay everything in Liberty, but the tradeoff would be a faster shrine, as well as of course the free monuments in your next 3 cities (probably saving 10-ish turns of production each).

The only glitch in the Legalism path is that your scout finishes before pottery does, but pottery finishes early enough that you don't have time to build anything else completely before it's time to make a shrine. I don't prioritize scouting very much, so I often spend those few turns on a worker and go straight into a shrine when it's available. However I also don't usually go into liberty anymore, so hard building a worker when you know you have 3 free ones coming (assuming pyramids) is not worth the maintenance costs. Since you build two scouts, a second could be built here which probably only delays the shrine by 3-5 turns depending on growth and production.

Never really thought about opening Tradition first before Liberty. Might give this a go. Like you said opening Tradition asap would probably mean that the land around the capital would be bigger than if i started off with Liberty. My 2nd City would be a little slower in being founded but that shouldn't have too much effect on anything.

I should Micro the numbers a bit more i guess to improve my own game.

Thanks for the tip will try this out in my next new game.

 

[x2Madda]

How I start my games?
Look around at what is nearby. I know that is cliche and "playing the map" is something that is always suggested but seldom elaborated on but I prefer going into games with no immediate win condition in mind for the first 20 or so turns while I scout out the map and see what is going on. The downside is that your first policy happens within those 20 or so turns and against human players you could make a bad 1st pick really early.
Having said that opening with tradition is usually a good idea, although I am trying with a Piety opener in a current MP game

 

[jlim201]

Tradition Opener
Liberty Opener
Republic
Worker Policy
Settler Policy


Techs

Pottery
Mining
Writing
Calendar/Masonry

Build Order

Scout
Monument
Shrine
Great Library

 

[rodrigoq]

My diety strat, usually goes like:

Full Tradition

Scout, archer, archer (hopefully chopped) GL or Stonehenge
tech: pottery, writing. If I get either one from a ruin i'n going to get GL, if I don't, stonehenge.
then mining, then beeline theo if I get a pantheon. If no good pantheon, Civil service.

Find my closest neighbor, steal his workers.

Chop and army, starting warrior + 3 archers + scout. Go beat down my closest neighbor, knock him out, take his cities. Usually have 2 warrior 5 archer 1 spearman after I take AI's 3rd and final city.

By then, I have HG built/chopped. and I'm headed to 2nd closest civ to take their good cities, raze the rest. Hopefully by that point, I have met as few civs as possible, so no one knows of my sins, and I can force my faith down everyones throats, and start holy wars. Which should result in me killing their army, sitting on their borders leveling my units till the want to give me a city for peace, or huge gpt.

Then as game progresses, attempt to wonder whore, focusing on theo wonders first, before AI catched up to theo. Increase army to max units, and start picking fights with civs that are running away, bring em down to size, by getting DoW'ed on, then razing most of their big cities into the ground.

basically..

 

[Silverman6083]

Tradition->Legalism->Monarchy
then whatever I want to do with the game, it always works for me on Emperor.

 

[Moriarte]

My diety strat, usually goes like:

Full Tradition

Scout, archer, archer (hopefully chopped) GL or Stonehenge
tech: pottery, writing. If I get either one from a ruin i'n going to get GL, if I don't, stonehenge.
then mining, then beeline theo if I get a pantheon. If no good pantheon, Civil service.

Find my closest neighbor, steal his workers.

Chop and army, starting warrior + 3 archers + scout. Go beat down my closest neighbor, knock him out, take his cities. Usually have 2 warrior 5 archer 1 spearman after I take AI's 3rd and final city.

By then, I have HG built/chopped. and I'm headed to 2nd closest civ to take their good cities, raze the rest. Hopefully by that point, I have met as few civs as possible, so no one knows of my sins, and I can force my faith down everyones throats, and start holy wars. Which should result in me killing their army, sitting on their borders leveling my units till the want to give me a city for peace, or huge gpt.

Then as game progresses, attempt to wonder whore, focusing on theo wonders first, before AI catched up to theo. Increase army to max units, and start picking fights with civs that are running away, bring em down to size, by getting DoW'ed on, then razing most of their big cities into the ground.

basically..

That's the most bold deity strat i have ever heard about.

 

[Aenthin]

My opening consists of:

1. Open Piety
2. Fail Miserably

But no seriously, my starting strategy is a little dependent on map and the civ I use, not so much about what needs to be done. For example, I skip scouts when I use an archipelago map and go straight for building monuments (or warriors if the island is large enough when barbarians can get pesky).

 

[qutsemnie]

Never really thought about opening Tradition first before Liberty. Might give this a go. Like you said opening Tradition asap would probably mean that the land around the capital would be bigger than if i started off with Liberty. My 2nd City would be a little slower in being founded but that shouldn't have too much effect on anything.

First off always experiment with "bad plays" if you really want to improve that is just life advice. Plays you deem to be wrong. This is something I learned from improving my ranking in Chess though honestly I don't think I have the patience any more. Make hypothesis and then test with experiments. If you just hypothesize you end up trapping yourself mentally. It is a classic mental trap in Chess. To refine an opening so thoroughly and systematically that you start discounting what are viable alternatives that may lead to better play. You start not being able to see the alternatives.

That said, if your waiting for the Liberty settler to get your 2nd city you are waiting far to long imo. Maybe I don't understand something. I never actually tried it so I am in violation of my own rule! Never really thought about it.

You said, "your second city will be slower" using tradition, but I don't think it will be. It will be faster or the same. A lot of pro sounding players say they build the second settler with GP to avoid the building time hit btw. They save coin to 500 and that's city number 2. Personally I like to get my second city out really fast in the name of sweet territory and then catch up before doing 3 and 4, so I don't wait for 500. Like I sacrifice to get it out fast. Never actually noted the turn though. I don't know if that is deity level play but it seems to work on immortal.


Also on workers, if you DoW a CS don't stop at just one or two workers, keep going on that guy until you have more workers than you can use. This was a leap for me. I got one and I was like, "I am the man." Then the next game I got 2 and I was like, "I really am the man!" And then one game I just camped this CS on my border baiting his units out as they were built, and I started destroying workers for 22gp because keeping them didn't seem worth it. From that point on I had a new plan... I can't find any reason to declare peace with a CS other than to make them allies. I mean there comes a point where you have to many workers, but now with BNW you need a surge of workers again after archaeology. Time to revisit that CS! It is not like a CS is a military threat and if they fight you its more exp for your units. Early camping of a CS for farm became more viable in BNW because the AI has a reluctance to create early wars.

 

[Walter R]

My opening consists of:

1. Open Piety
2. Fail Miserably

Thankyou! Nearly fell off my chair when I read this...

 

[Doktor Vic Tim]

When playing multiplayer with a friend

1. Mix Liberty and Tradition Opener
2. Focus on science
3. Win with Science
4. Get friend to ban science victory because it's "cheap and easy"
5. Inevitably get crushed by another player favouring war.