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What leader traits do you prefer?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by WaKonabi21772, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. WaKonabi21772

    WaKonabi21772 Chieftain

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    I've always leaned towards creative, just for the simple fact that every new city becomes bigger in at least 8 turns which greatly helps in cultural pressure and expanding.

    As a second trait, i go back and forth between expansive, philisophical, and sometimes even industrious.

    However i'm mainly asking because i'm a pretty low level player (just starting warlord) and was curious what you guys think are the best traits.
     
  2. Peteyboy

    Peteyboy Warlord

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    Well all can be useful at different times - Depending on how you want the game to unfold - But this is a few general observations - mixed in with my years of playing experience of how I feel traits have their uses.

    Financial - Is always a good trait especially for lower level players - easy advantage without needing particular style to adopt (comfortable Cottage Economy) and roll on from there

    Philisophical - I think this edged a recent poll - not certain though - Obviously great for GP farming and overall gives you a whole host of good GP production.

    Imperialistic - THE Rex'ing Trait - Great for fast expansion - Long term no major role - but the early advantage can ride itself through the game so long as you can control your economy efficently

    Spiritual - The Dimplomatic trait - This has the obvious advantage of no anarchy - which is always useful, but is mainly great for being able to agree with any demands for changes of religion and civic as required keeping more civ's happy.

    Cultural - I like this trait - it has quick early advantages of gaining land and blocking its way and expanding - in many ways a good general trait without any 1 exceptional function - Long term the culture bonus is worth very little, but over the game you will always do reasonably well with this.

    Industrious - A tricky trait - especially on higher levels - it does have a few advantages late on, but unless you are going to work on many wonders, this can seem a little unuseful - although I do like this in conjunction with Philosophical.

    Expansive - A solid trait - helpful to get cities going, and has some fairly useful half time buildings - much like Charismatic - will not win you or lose you a game, and I find you can't really plan a game specifically to this trait but nontheless will always do you no harm.

    Charismatic - Useful early on for the happiness & health bonus allows you to use Slavery better - and has a nice effect regarding reduced xp - not IMO a game decider, but for militant leaders this is always a very useful trait to have.

    Aggresive - Considered these days a weaker trait overall - Always useful particvularly I feel in longer games where the bonus lasts longer with gunpowder units. Good for Barbarian defence early on too - I still would say though if I was looking for early conquering, this is a very useful trait - although it tends to be quite 1-dimensional in how it forms.

    Protective - A very frustrating tech to conquer - but to use - good for only needing a very limited number of units to hold a city - I have to say this is overall my least favourite - although some rave about it - although like certain traits mentioned above - I don't see it as one where you have an obvious plan - and the other trait is likely to determine the game strategy.

    Heh, I hope I haven't forgotten one! :)

    I would say for newish players then Financial is nice and comfortable until you get used to the economy side of the game - possibly with Imperialistic or Charismatic. But the key to deciding what you should use is as I started this off with - How do you want to play the game?

    Good Luck!
     
  3. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    (Cue rant, you can skip this if you've heard me talk about Aggressive before...)

    I've always thought Aggressive was underrated on these boards; it's regularly grouped in the weakest category although I think it is a solid mid-line trait.

    It's real advantage is not that you get Combat I on your melee and gunpowder units. It's real advantage is that you get access to the high level promotions like March, Commando, Blitz, etc. much more easily because you don't have to soak the XP to get Combat I. Also, you can make good counter units and medic units right out the gate with a Barracks early-game, when you don't have wonders like the Pentagon or Civics like Vassalage or Theocracy available to get that extra experience for the second promotion.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Financial - Strong/easy to use if somewhat one-dimensional. Can allow for good B. caps and some very interesting early tech speed with colossus. Overall a solid trait and tends to be good consistently. Tier: High.

    Philosophical - Fast early GPP can allow for some fun beelines/gambits. If not used that way, it can at least bulb techs rapidly to keep one in the tech picture via trades while infra catches up. It helps early and that counts. Tier: High.

    Imperialistic - A bit of a mixed bag...usually considered the premier expansion trait, it adds a little warfare to the mix as well. Better on maps where you build more settlers than usual. Allows a potentially decent settler-first opening and if you war contributes well enough overall. Tier: Medium.

    Spiritual - Anarchy is underrated as a setback. This trait allows whimsical and diplomatic civic swapping and some very powerful diplo maneuvers. The temples are somewhat situational but also very good when the situation allows for them to be at their best. This trait helps pretty well in every game. Tier: High.

    Creative - All early game, all the time. Good nonetheless. Affords a fast GS off the cheap libraries and a fairly rigid culture border (only inca and arabia can keep up early on. Zara doesn't count, he's CRE too). Allows hammer-effective settling of cities via skipped monuments and faster access to full BFC than any other trait. You can open with the granary instead of the monument, so new cities develop more quickly. Sury is a special case here and is a top 3 expander (cathy, joao). Tier: High.

    Industrious - Gets a bad rep on high levels and part of the reason is the adjustments needed to use it well. Select wonders can be very strong on all levels and cheaper national wonders can go a long way toward strengthening an empire too. The forges are wondrous for their cost and merit early-than-normal MC (especially with the resources). Rather than thinking wonders, think "productive empire as a whole" which is what the word means. OR + cheap forge can get you ALL infra up pretty easily, and your ability to set it up quickly is huge. Add in the wonder(s) you can get without screwing yourself and you have a solid trait. Tier: High

    Expansive - Oft maligned and for no good reason. It's every bit the expansion trait as CRE and IMP, and probably the strongest of the 3 to long-term economy. With a PERMANENT health boost and the ability to set new cities up very quickly (cheaper or extra workers + speed granary) this trait develops land quickly and eats less cap trouble. Tier: High.

    Charismatic - A versatile trait that is hard to make total use of but easy to benefit from regardless. The early happiness can alter tech paths and certainly allows for a stronger early economy (even better than FIN in extremely early goings potentially). This is the only trait that directly impacts all kinds of military units (IMP does so indirectly VIA GG's). Mounted is very powerful with this trait ---> amphibious cavalry without any settled GG's can be interesting, and lvl 4 mounted in general has good potential. Easier-than-average access to CR III on siege is a boost too. I like it a lot but it's probably not QUITE as good as some of the others overall. Tier: Medium-high.

    Aggressive - It can be useful. You get amphibious at 5 XP if you want it (oft neglected this fact is...), as well as promotions like formation. Strong as an early rush and potentially in the gunpowder era as well. Still, the building discounts aren't exactly delicious (unless you're Shaka), rushes are not always viable, and other traits allow for some rush help w/o giving you nothing on the economic side. Tier: Low-medium

    Protective - Probably the single most obnoxious trait on the AI, but note that other than gilgamesh (with the super AI trait of creative to compensate awful planning and auto workers) PRO AIs are not typically the ones that first threaten to win the game. This is regarded as the worst trait and it took a bad indirect nerfing when gold overflow was broken in 3.19 (not fixed, attempted to be fixed but then shattered entirely). Drill, especially drill IV, can be very powerful, but it doesn't really start shining until gunpowder (knights and HAs, with implicit FS immunity, are a serious problem to drill archery in the field and even defense). This trait does allow some good CG archery units, but to truly protect yourself with those requires a LOT of archers if the AI has any siege, and if it goes on a pillage kick (or your MP enemies do so) your PRO archery has only limited use. To *really* add insult to injury, drill II does not unlock amphibious for some unknown, stupid reason. That insult along with its limited game-consistent usage outside of gunpowder wars hurts PRO. Tier: Low.

    Organized - The post I used to build this post ignored ORG entirely! Wow. Org offers some impressive building discounts and cost reductions that help from "go" and continue until somebody wins. No matter what you do, ORG helps, and potentially a lot. One of the easiest traits to use and what it lacks in glamor it makes up for in actual strength. Tier: High.
     
  5. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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    I'm very addicted to using Financial for the extra commerce.

    I have found that combining Char leader with civ's like Egypt or Native America will make the respective UB that much more useful.

    I think Aggressive is useful as it gets you to things like Shock and Cover on the first level of a new unit if you have Barracks.
     
  6. skyclad

    skyclad Prince

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    Organized is great. The maintenance reduction isnt huge (its only for the civic upkeep) but every gold helps, and the reduced buildings (COURTHOUSE, factories, lighthouse(?)) are all great, courthouse and factory I think are two of the best buildigs to get reduced cost on.

    The others all have their strenghts (except prot...), Darius I think is kind of imba with financial and organized though. Financial to me is the biggest advantage, stays strong through the whole game like organized. Philosophical might be "stronger" among elite players but financial gives a very real and a very BIG bonus that is easy to achieve, for veterans and noobs alike.

    Chariismatic and Spiritual are both great also, some decent fast buildings on both and again, a very real, useful to every single game advantage is provided from both.
     
  7. hexem3117

    hexem3117 Warlord

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    AGG also allows you to rush early on with higher chances. THAT'S awesome too.
     
  8. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    The traits I consider the top tier ones are as follows:
    ORG - Because land helps everything, and lots of land requires lots of courthouses and benefits from half price civics, this trait helps regardless of whatever else is happening.

    FIN - Another very flexible trait, as you can focus your economy to do any number of things with it. It helps in tech, so you can get ahead for military or space wins (and diplomatic, via strength and goodwill generated with tech gifting). The extra commerce adds to culture with the slider, so it helps with those wins. And of course, if you get behind, it adds to the benefit of using the espionage slider as well.

    CHM - Easily better for getting highly promoted units than are PRO or AGG. The happiness bonus should not be overlooked either. Between the standard +1 and the bonus for monumnets, this trait can allow you some real flexibility early on.

    EXP - Health is always an issue in the industrial/modern periods. Just that +2 makes this trait worth considering as solid. Add in cheap granaries and workers and you have a trait that will help you build the kind of kingdom that can abuse that health bonus later.

    The second tier would be CRE, IMP, SPI and PHI, and the bottom tier: AGG, PRO, IND
     
  9. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    I tend to favor financial, organized, and creative. Mostly because i'm lazy, and those traits tend to shine regardless of effort or micro (FIN, ORG); or allow you to cut some corners (CRE).

    Expansive isn't as great now that random events will often give +2 or +3 health permanantly in all cities as early as the early BC's.
     
  10. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

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    Financial, Charismatic, Aggressive, Creative, in that order.
     
  11. Shafi

    Shafi King

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    In my opinion -

    Top tier - Financial & Philosophical, i just love having one of these two traits.

    2nd tier - Creative, Charismatic.
     
  12. oleg1

    oleg1 Chieftain

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    Protective is still great for inustrial chinese leader.
    getting promoted ch-ko-nu before AD is awesome.
     
  13. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    My order of preference (breaks indicate that I consider the gap quite large... tier 1-3 if you will).

    Organised
    Industrious
    Financial
    Philosophical

    Expansive
    Imperialistic
    Spiritual
    Charismatic

    Creative
    Protective
    Aggressive

    *

    I love ORG because it's a powerful economic edge that's in full effect if you focus on production - I often prefer expansion and good infrastructure over a short-time tech edge and because it actually has useful building discounts.

    CRE I rate unusually low because I prefer to settle in a way that makes it redundant. Also, a EXP Granary + monument will got up more quickly than just the Granary for the CRE leader; the additional culture isn't relevant very often. Yuck. Hate.

    I'd like to point out that I'm fine with any combination that doesn't involve the 3 traits I dislike... for example, if I have FIN or ORG as my first trait, rapid expansion is very affordable and I'm as happy with a time/hammer saving trait compared to another economy one.
     
  14. Sincro

    Sincro Thou hast no Cu, again...

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    My favorite trait is definitely creative. Not only does it allow for the brain-dead auto border pop, cheap libraries for early GS production, and cheap as dirt theaters for mid-game culture pressure all combine to make this a trait I miss the most when my draw is a leader that lacks it.

    My least favorite trait is protective, both from my own units standpoint, and seeing it in neighboring civs standpoint. While I do build units to defend my cities, I much prefer to build attacking armies then defending ones, or at the least units that can perform either role. I also favor the active defense theory, which again negates the main benefit of protective for my own units. But lord, seeing a protective neighbor just annoys the hell out of me. Especially Sitting Bull or Tokugawa. SB is god-awful because his totem pole + barracks pretty much means every bloody city he owns will be double or triple protected with CG3/drill1 archery units. Toku isn't quite as bad pre-gunpowder, but sheesh, combat 1, drill 1, cg1 gunpowder units are hellacious to deal with. Add in a barracks + vassalage or theocracy and it's much worse. Nothing like being able to completely customize your gunpowder units for whatever role you need at the moment you build them. Good thing Toku is awful at playing civ. :)

    -Sinc
     
  15. Raizer

    Raizer Chieftain

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    I play at Noble level, so I have a different view of some traits which are more or less useful on different levels.

    Organized is (as I learned in another thread) more helpful on higher levels as there's more maintenance. (Expansive is another trait that may be better on higher levels because there are more health problems at those levels.)

    Industrious is, illogically, one of my favorite traits because I like to build Wonders, and I think it's more useful on lower levels because you have a better shot at getting Wonders. (I don't think it's the best trait though...maybe somewhere up there...)

    Financial is pretty good as others have already said. I also like Charismatic for the faster promotions.

    Creative's pretty nice too, although it can depend on the situation (isolated start won't require fast border expansion).

    Traits I consider lower-tier: Aggressive, Protective, Imperialistic, Spiritual, Philosophical. This isn't to say that they are bad - they're helpful, just not as helpful as the others. They feel more like a "That's nice to have..." instead of a definite benefit. Again, I'm only Noble level player, so this is obviously different on higher levels.
     
  16. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    IMP, and the second is a toss-up.
     
  17. bestbrian

    bestbrian Just this guy, ya know?

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    Charismatic and Industrious are my two faves. Lower xp thresholds for quick leveling up, early extra :), cheap forges for even more :) and hammers, quicker access to the wonders that I want; it's a pretty nifty combination, and one of the reasons why De Gaulle is one of my favorites in an unrestricted leaders game (DeGaulle of Spain is so much fun).

    @TMIT: Why the emphasis on Amphib in your post? Have you become enamored of Troy's Amphibious Elephants? :lol:
     
  18. Lorax

    Lorax Chieftain

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    If you havent used Spiritual - Just try it.....You wont be disappointed.

    ** Its powerful to use as Diplo - accepting civs/religions & other demands without anarchy.

    ** By using civics to your advantage - moving into Theocracy & Vassalage for army building is like gaining AGG AND PRO for your forces. Moving to Pacifism is like being Philo.

    ** The cheap temples allow you to be a cultural force. If you snag a religion suddenly happiness is less a problem - like partial Charismatic. Chop out Stonehenge and you are now 50% of a CRE leader added to your traits early in the game.

    Basically Spiritual allows you to manipulate the game to your advantage - whether it be diplo, military, etc....You can gain parts of every other trait as needed without Anarchy.

    Alos, if you get that Religion & Stonehenge - the eary Great Prophet & Shrine will bring financial gains to your empire.

    For my .02 its the most powerful trait of all.
     
  19. Lorax

    Lorax Chieftain

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    Thats interesting - I always thought he would be fun to play but havent yet tried him....On the list now :)
     
  20. bestbrian

    bestbrian Just this guy, ya know?

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    With Spain he's just awesome. Uber-promoted siege units, and Charismatic Conqs are just frackin' awesome. Every once in awhile I like to play a Great Plains map as DeGaulle of Spain, WB myself into one of the corners, leave Dom and Conq as the only victory conditions, and then just start "cuttin' the grass" (or as they say in French, "Meaux de Laun"). :lol:
     

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