What leaders and/or nations do you want in Civilization VII?

[Patine]

The big problem about have one Pueblo Nation rejecting the use of their languae is that most of these nations are part of the All Pueblo Council of Governors, seems like Hopi are the only Pueblo not under this group. Still I think Navajo despite being not Pueblo (actually are kind of their "traditional enemies") could fit as the NA-SouthWest native civs by their incorporation of proper Pueblo elements like build Pueblitos and have Kachina dances and dolls. Also, the Navajo are the most* populous USA native nation and have the biggest reservation.

By the way the Navajo is a minor civ in AoE3 all with their units speaking Navajo so is clear they dont have a problem with be in a game. Funny thing AoE3 have Navajo, Apache and Comanche units but strangely dont have any Pueblo, maybe ES/MS already had the same problem that Firaxis with the Pueblo representation.

Minor civ units in AoE3 have few lines compared to bigger civ's (which include the Lakota, as such major civ's, for instance), and minor civ's, unlike major ones, each only have one or two units, three techs (and three levels of upgrade techs to their units), and no special buildings - which is unfortunate. But the language thing is definitely there, I agree.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I think it would be weird to implement Pueblitos in a Navajo civ, especially when they already have their own hooghan infrastructure that is distinguishable enough.

I think the Pueblo would at least make a good city-state/minor civ and their suzerain could build traditional pueblo dwellings. I think that might be the best way to get them in the game, in some form.

Ideas:
Kewa/Santo Domingo - Culture city state
Taos - Culture city state
Mesa Verde - Production city-state (to wonders and infrastructure)

 

[BuchiTaton]

Ideas:
Kewa/Santo Domingo - Culture city state
Taos - Culture city state
Mesa Verde - Production city-state (to wonders and infrastructure)

> HISATSINOM "minor civ":
* Kachina tradition, any city with Pueblo UI get bonus to tourism and religion.
* Pueblo UI, special fort that can be build on mountains since Ancient Era.

"Minor Civs" include CityStates+BarbarianClans, they could be named Nations since traditionally CIV regards playable civs as Empires. Every "Minor Civ" provide some unique (unit, infrastructure, resource, etc.) that could be accessed by playable civs by control of such minor civ (diplomacy, conquest, etc.).
Additionally Traditions is a new kind of unique bonus from each culture for both Empires and Nations. By default each civ have their own Tradition but you can also integrate cultures to gain their traditions. The integration requieres those cultures to be X% of your population and is limited to a X number of total integrated cultures.

 

[Venceslau Pietro Pietra]

A time ago we were debating about the inclusion of a Guarani civ in a future game, today I came to advocate in name of their less know neighbors, the Jê people, which Jê here being a umbrella term for a big number of culturally related tribes who inhabited today Brazil and didn't speak Tupi derivate languages. We have few records outside the traditional conflicts with European colonizers and forced conversion by the Jesuits, but there's some interesting stuff, like those cool underground huts used by some sedentary farmer tribes, who could serve as a unique improvement.

Or that some Jê tribes were cannibals and consumed war captives and they own regularly, it wasn't exclusively a religious practice like the Tupi but I think a cannibalism ability, with defeated units giving food, for example, could still be offensive. The southern Jê(Kaigang) were the first to harvest the araucaria nuts and had most of their economy centered around it, could serve as a base for an ability who grant a unique bonus resource or boost unimproved resources in some way.
The major problem is the lack of a leader, even a mythological one like Kupe or Dido is hard to find. Anyway, nowhere the top priority civilization for a base game, but would be a cool dark horse to see in some expansion, like how Mapuche was in Rise and Fall, if they keep the south america non Inca native slot.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Or that some Jê tribes were cannibals and consumed war captives and they own regularly, it wasn't exclusively a religious practice like the Tupi but I think a cannibalism ability, with defeated units giving food, for example, could still be offensive. The southern Jê(Kaigang) were the first to harvest the araucaria nuts and had most of their economy centered around it, could serve as a base for an ability who grant a unique bonus resource or boost unimproved resources in some way.

There's a Native American tribe called the Karankawa that lived in the region that I currently live in, and they were said to practice cannibalism by the Spaniards. I do not know if that is true or not, but it could make something interesting, like what you said about the Je/Kaigang

 

[BuchiTaton]

Obviously Mapuche were little know for most CIV players outside Chile and Argentina. But by their own merits are the most impressive non-urban native nation in the whole Americas, their expansion over other natives and their resistance against Incas, Spaniards and their post-Colonial nations sucessors is evident in their current population way more numerous than any USA/Canada native nation. Only Guarani have this level of success between the non-urban native cultures of the Americas.

Beyond those in South America civs like Muisca, Chimur, Tupi and Carib are more notorious and likely to be playable.

 

[Henri Christophe]

A time ago we were debating about the inclusion of a Guarani civ in a future game, today I came to advocate in name of their less know neighbors, the Jê people, which Jê here being a umbrella term for a big number of culturally related tribes who inhabited today Brazil and didn't speak Tupi derivate languages. We have few records outside the traditional conflicts with European colonizers and forced conversion by the Jesuits, but there's some interesting stuff, like those cool underground huts used by some sedentary farmer tribes, who could serve as a unique improvement.
View attachment 660964View attachment 660966
Or that some Jê tribes were cannibals and consumed war captives and they own regularly, it wasn't exclusively a religious practice like the Tupi but I think a cannibalism ability, with defeated units giving food, for example, could still be offensive. The southern Jê(Kaigang) were the first to harvest the araucaria nuts and had most of their economy centered around it, could serve as a base for an ability who grant a unique bonus resource or boost unimproved resources in some way.
The major problem is the lack of a leader, even a mythological one like Kupe or Dido is hard to find. Anyway, nowhere the top priority civilization for a base game, but would be a cool dark horse to see in some expansion, like how Mapuche was in Rise and Fall, if they keep the south america non Inca native slot.

Jê is a linguistic group that the antropologos give it's name because their nations use to much the fonema Jê...
The correlation you try to make is between Tupi-Guarani, who is also a linguist group with Jê.
But when you speak just Guarani, I understand you are talking about the group of people called Guarani, who is one of the biggest of South America (just behind Mapuches).
But, I still thinking Guarani should be a better choice then the Jê for one reason.
Before the European arrival the style of life of the Guarani and Jê are very similar, but after the contact with Jesuits the Guarani change a lot it's way of life. So we can use Unique Buildings of this contact of Guarani and Jesuits as the Missiones.
And some scholars say this contact was bad to Guarani, but I think the exactly opposite, because of Jesuits that the Guarani is the language who Paraguayan speak even today, this marriage between Guarani and Jesuits is the reason the Guarani had survive so well untill today.

 

[jsciv69]

Apparently there is news that Civ VII is already in development. If that's true, then likely the Civs and leaders have already been chosen. But in the fun of this thread I will present a brief list.


AMERICA--Dwight D Eisenhower, and/or Ulysess S Grant
MEXICO--Benito Juarez
RUSSIA--Nikita Khruschev
CUBA-Fidel Castro
ROME-Nero
GREECE-Cleisthenes
EGYPT-Gamal Abdel Nasser
CHINA-Wu Ding
ROMANIA-Vlad Dracula III
ENGLAND-Alfred the Great
FRANCE-Philip II
SPAIN-Isabella I

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Apparently there is news that Civ VII is already in development. If that's true, then likely the Civs and leaders have already been chosen. But in the fun of this thread I will present a brief list.


AMERICA--Dwight D Eisenhower, and/or Ulysess S Grant

I love it

MEXICO--Benito Juarez

Nice

RUSSIA--Nikita Khruschev

Soviets?

CUBA-Fidel Castro

Cool

ROME-Nero

YES. YES.

GREECE-Cleisthenes

ok

EGYPT-Gamal Abdel Nasser

yes

CHINA-Wu Ding
ROMANIA-Vlad Dracula III

ok i guess

ENGLAND-Alfred the Great

meh could do better

FRANCE-Philip II

Phillip Augustus is the best choice on the list

SPAIN-Isabella I

good

 

[Henri Christophe]

Soviets?

I would like more socialist leaders!
Since socialism is the best way of government!!!!

Maybe countries as Russia, China and Vietnam could have leaders of it's socialist regim as alt leader.
Cuba and Yugoslavia should have as the main leader.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I would like more socialist leaders!
Since socialism is the best way of government!!!!

Maybe countries as Russia, China and Vietnam could have leaders of it's socialist regim as alt leader.
Cuba and Yugoslavia should have as the main leader.

Ok. Hold on...
hold on...
that wasn't socialism. Those were totalitarian regimes that only did harm to their people. Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh were terrible dictators! (coming from a socialist). Gorbachev, Tito, and Castro teeter on the edge because they were good (especially Gorbachev!)

 

[Xandinho]

Adding 20th century dictators is a great way for the game to lose buyers or be banned in many countries.

The only socialist dictator I can see in the game is Castro, but still for the distant future. Cuba hasn't appeared in the game even as a city-state, I don't think it's on the devs' radar.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Adding 20th century dictators is a great way for the game to lose buyers or be banned in many countries.

The only socialist dictator I can see in the game is Castro, but still for the distant future. Cuba hasn't appeared in the game even as a city-state, I don't think it's on the devs' radar.

Rosa Luxembourg could be cool for Germany, a socialist leader that nobody brought up.

Gorbachov progressed the Soviets to a democratic nation through glasnost, perestroika, and the Sinatra Doctrine.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Gorbachev, Tito, and Castro teeter on the edge because they were good (especially Gorbachev!)

Tito and Castro are considered good?

The only socialist dictator I can see in the game is Castro, but still for the distant future. Cuba hasn't appeared in the game even as a city-state, I don't think it's on the devs' radar.

The first step is Havana needs to stop appearing as a Spanish city.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Tito and Castro are considered good?

I meant okay

 

[Henri Christophe]

Ok. Hold on...
hold on...
that wasn't socialism. Those were totalitarian regimes that only did harm to their people. Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh were terrible dictators! (coming from a socialist). Gorbachev, Tito, and Castro teeter on the edge because they were good (especially Gorbachev!)

Russians as Stalin could be just a dictator, but Chinese socialist aren't. They follow the right path of socialism.

And it's very American (Yankee) thinking in all socialism as devil and just democracy as good.
But let's remember, even Plato was against the democracy, on his thoughts it's the aristocracy (or better, the sofocracy) the best way to rule a city. And I don't want to be anachronic, but the socialism is more close to Plato's view of sofocracy then any other style of government.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Russians as Stalin could be just a dictator, but Chinese socialist aren't. They follow the right path of socialism.

And it's very American (Yankee) thinking in all socialism as devil and just democracy as good.
But let's remember, even Plato was against the democracy, on his thoughts it's the aristocracy (or better, the sofocracy) the best way to rule a city. And I don't want to be anachronic, but the socialism is more close to Plato's view of sofocracy then any other style of government.

I'm American AND socialist.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Let us stick to the topic and not get into current events/political comparisons. That is a subject for OT.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

EGYPT-Gamal Abdel Nasser

If Abdel Nasser is to be in the game, he makes much more sense as an Arabian leader than an Egyptian one

 

[Patine]

If Abdel Nasser is to be in the game, he makes much more sense as an Arabian leader than an Egyptian one

Yes, by the viewpoint of the game's defintions of civ's. But, he shouldn't be in the game, at all - any more than Nikita Khruschev or Fidel Castro should be. Vlad Dracula III is sketchy, because, regardless of his facinating (if bloody and ruthless) history, he's become an inescaple caricature in pop culture. And Nero is one of the poorest choices for Rome, other than the ones who only reigned for a few months in times of turmoil and instability.