What leaders and/or nations do you want in Civilization VII?

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Vlad Dracula III is sketchy, because, regardless of his facinating (if bloody and ruthless) history, he's become an inescaple caricature in pop culture.

There's no way Firaxis passes up the chance to put Vlad III in the game if Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania is in the game, but two good alternatives could be Michael the Brave (Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania) and Stephen the Great (Romania/Moldavia)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Vlad Dracula III is sketchy, because, regardless of his facinating (if bloody and ruthless) history, he's become an inescaple caricature in pop culture.

I concur that Vlad Dracul III is most likely out of all those leaders you listed to get in, as long as we get a Romanian/Transylvanian civ.
Russia, Egypt, Arabia and Rome have plenty of better options. And well I could care less about Cuba getting in.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

There's no way Firaxis passes up the chance to put Vlad III in the game if Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania is in the game, but two good alternatives could be Michael the Brave (Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania) and Stephen the Great (Romania/Moldavia)

Carol I?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Carol I?

Good, but not as impressive

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Good, but not as impressive

Burbeista (for the Dacians, not Romanians)?

 

[pineappledan]

There's no way Firaxis passes up the chance to put Vlad III in the game if Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania is in the game, but two good alternatives could be Michael the Brave (Romania/Wallachia/Transylvania) and Stephen the Great (Romania/Moldavia)

It’s for that reason that I kind of hope Romania/Transylvania etc never gets into the game.

The modern image of Vlad III is a pop-culture cartoon character, just a name without a shred of real history, but he eclipses the greatest Ottoman sultans or Caliphs in the western imagination. Meanwhile, the real life man was a minor bit-player, a speed bump to the larger aims of the Ottomans and Hungarians. He is notable only because of his butchery. He is neither interesting, nor particularly relevant to a broader view of European history. Any attempt to add him in will have to dip into vampire tropes, because the absolute mockery Stoker and Hollywood have turned him into is the most notable thing about him.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

It’s for that reason that I kind of hope Romania/Transylvania etc never gets into the game, because the modern image of Vlad III is a pop-culture cartoon character, and the real life man was a minor bit-player, a minor speed bump to the larger aims of the Ottomans and Hungarians, notable only because of his butchery. He is neither interesting, nor particularly relevant to a broader view of European history.

I myself am pretty okay with him. He has quite the distinctive appearance, and a potentially menacing persona to boot, he gets a pass from me regardless of his actual historical significance

 

[pineappledan]

I’m a firm believer that bad representation is worse than no representation. I am 90% certain that, if Romania were to appear, firaxis would bow to market pressure and have tropey vampire vlad lead them, and that undermines the seriousness and validity of the game as educational and historical. I don’t pretend to speak for actual Romanians, but I would guess they would also perceive it as disrespectful; using their culture to pander to western self-referential pop culture.

 

[Patine]

From what I can gather, Vlad Tepes is pretty romaniticized and mythologized in Romania, and Romanians have never launched a complaint about being insulted in his pop culture portrayals. In fact, Bela Lugosi (who himself was Romanian, by birth and upbringing) is honoured there for his role as Dracula in old Universal studios movies, and the, "Castle Dracula," - the rural castle that inspired Bram Stoker is a tourist trap. A Romanian political party even uses Vlad Tepes' image as their logo.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

From what I can gather, Vlad Tepes is pretty romaniticized and mythologized in Romania, and Romanians have never launched a complaint about being insulted in his pop culture portrayals. In fact, Bela Lugosi (who himself was Romanian, by birth and upbringing) is honoured there for his role as Dracula in old Universal studios movies, and the, "Castle Dracula," - the rural castle that inspired Bram Stoker is a tourist trap. A Romanian political party even uses Vlad Tepes' image as their logo.

I feel like this is a similar situation to how Vietnam was depicted. They went with the heavy mythologized Ba Trieu, over other historical figures, but as far as I can tell many Vietnamese were just happy to get their country in the game.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Yes, Vlad III is a national hero of Romania for his actions against the Ottomans, not for any connection to the character in Bram Stoker's novel (who, if I recall correctly, isn't even supposed to be the same person but only shares his name).

 

[Patine]

Yes, Vlad III is a national hero of Romania for his actions against the Ottomans, not for any connection to the character in Bram Stoker's novel (who, if I recall correctly, isn't even supposed to be the same person but only shares his name).

But, what I'm saying is, the character by Bram Stoker, and as the further pop culture trope based on goes, is ALSO romanticized and, even, commercialized in modern Romania, as well.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I enjoyed playing Romania led by Vlad III by ChimpanG and others from the CIVITAS group. It's well worth a look.

Steam Workshop::CIVITAS Romania

steamcommunity.com

Steam Workshop::CIVITAS Vlad III

steamcommunity.com

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

In fact, I would be disappointed with a vampire-themed Vlad IIII, especially considering he is a fascinating character in his own right (whether you look at it from a historically accurate or mythologised view) without incorporating pop culture elements only tangentially related to him.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I enjoyed playing Romania led by Vlad III by ChimpanG and others from the CIVITAS group. It's well worth a look.

Steam Workshop::CIVITAS Romania

steamcommunity.com

Steam Workshop::CIVITAS Vlad III

steamcommunity.com

Was about to link that very mod myself. The model for Vlad III there is my Exhibit A for what I mean by a menacing persona. Now imagine him animated!

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

But, what I'm saying is, the character by Bram Stoker, and as the further pop culture trope based on goes, is ALSO romanticized and, even, commercialized in modern Romania, as well.

Ay, there's the rub. Still, hopefully Firaxis realises Vlad III is impressive enough in his own right without having to lean into the bats-and-bloodsuckers angle (though the temptation, from a marketing perspective, I imagine, must be immense).

 

[pineappledan]

Curious what people would add for a Caucasian civ, if we were going to get Georgia or Armenia et al. again. What leader, and what would their UB(s) and UU(s) be?

 

[pokiehl]

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to speculate about abilities or unique components without knowing anything about the game...

 

[pineappledan]

Talking about what the components would actually do is certainly too far, but I see no problem with speculating about what those components might be. That form of speculation, without reference to mechanics, is mostly concerned with what stand-out cultural artifacts or institutions would be charismatic enough to represent the entire culture/nation.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Curious what people would add for a Caucasian civ, if we were going to get Georgia or Armenia et al. again. What leader, and what would their UB(s) and UU(s) be?

For Armenia I've seen a lot of praise for their cavalry, especially under Tigranes the Great. I've seen them called "Azatavrear" or "Ayrudzi" and I'm not sure of the distinction between the two. They would be heavy cavalry, and could be a unique cataphract, if that was a generic unit in the game. Tiridates the Great would be a great leader for making Armenia the first kingdom to adopt Christianity as it's state religion.
For a unique infrastructure the Khachkar was the most interesting thing I've seen, unless you want to go for a monastery/church.

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to speculate about abilities or unique components without knowing anything about the game...

Presumably things like leaders, unique units, and unique infrastructure will show up in future games, so I don't see any reason why not to speculate?