What leaders and/or nations do you want in Civilization VII?

Curious what people would add for a Caucasian civ, if we were going to get Georgia or Armenia et al. again. What leader, and what would their UB(s) and UU(s) be?
I'd like to see Armenia. Although Georgia could be interesting (one of my best friends is from Georgia, the Caucasus country), I'd rather see the ancient Armenian kingdom shown. Tigranes or Tiridates could be leaders (I don't remember which one).
 
I'd like to see Armenia. Although Georgia could be interesting (one of my best friends is from Georgia, the Caucasus country), I'd rather see the ancient Armenian kingdom shown. Tigranes or Tiridates could be leaders (I don't remember which one).
Tigranes would be Zoroastrian, while Tiridates would presumably be Christian (probably Eastern Orthodox in game). He was born when Armenia was primarily under Zoroastrianism but converted to Christianity and made it the first kingdom to have Christianity as it's state religion.
 
A Circassian civ would be nice. Someday...
Or an Ancient Ossetic Alan civ. Both may be marred, at tthe moment, by Western political views of the Civil Wars in Georgia, though. Just like the culturally-rich and intriguing hsitories of the multi-ethnic Northeast Caucasus would be marred by current and recent politics, too, unforrtunately. :(

I reiterate that I detest when I politics subourns and hijacls gaming and other simple entertainments. It's thinly-veiled cynical propaganda.
 
I believe it is agreed that the Sassanids and Safavids should be represented as part of a single Persian nation (as the Achaemenids and Afsharids are done so in Civ6)? But what about the Parthians and Selecuids if they would be to feature in a game? Should they be their own civilizations or represented as part of the Persian?
 
I believe it is agreed that the Sassanids and Safavids should be represented as part of a single Persian nation (as the Achaemenids and Afsharids are done so in Civ6)? But what about the Parthians and Selecuids if they would be to feature in a game? Should they be their own civilizations or represented as part of the Persian?
Neither were Persian even if they ruled much of the same lands and peoples.
 
Neither were Persian even if they ruled much of the same lands and peoples.
Well, the Seleucids, definitely (they were a multi-ethnic empire ruled by a Greco-Macedonian elite - the same kind of Greco-Macedonian elite that Cleopatra belong to). The Parthians seem a bit more unclear. They spoke an Iran language, had Iranian naming styles, practiced Zorostrianism (in a different form), observed a fair number of cultural practices typical of Ancient Iranians, and were intermarried thoroughly with the clans of that Achaemenids and Sassanids. They WERE, however, horse-nomads, rather than the more urban and agrarian Archaemenid, Sassanids, Safavids, and Afsharids, but I'm not convinced that, alone, makes them a completely different people.
 
Well, the Seleucids, definitely (they were a multi-ethnic empire ruled by a Greco-Macedonian elite - the same kind of Greco-Macedonian elite that Cleopatra belong to). The Parthians seem a bit more unclear. They spoke an Iran language, had Iranian naming styles, practiced Zorostrianism (in a different form), observed a fair number of cultural practices typical of Ancient Iranians, and were intermarried thoroughly with the clans of that Achaemenids and Sassanids. They WERE, however, horse-nomads, rather than the more urban and agrarian Archaemenid, Sassanids, Safavids, and Afsharids, but I'm not convinced that, alone, makes them a completely different people.
They came from a different part of Iran and spoke a different language to the Sassanids and Archaemenids and were more Hellenised than their Persian predecessors or successors.
 
They came from a different part of Iran and spoke a different language to the Sassanids and Archaemenids and were more Hellenised than their Persian predecessors or successors.
"The Iranian (or Persian) Peoples were a more diverse and poly-cultural notion than many give credit for today. Also, the concept of ethnicities was not nearly so cut and dry in those days as we view it today. How different the Partians and Sassanids saw each other from each other, as opposed to from non-Iranian speakers, and whether or not being from a different part of a massive empire known for political centrality, or being influenced by a culture that had a massive cultural influence, really had them seeing each other as that distinct has been up for debate. (@Zaarin, where are you?)
 
Well, the Seleucids, definitely (they were a multi-ethnic empire ruled by a Greco-Macedonian elite - the same kind of Greco-Macedonian elite that Cleopatra belong to). The Parthians seem a bit more unclear. They spoke an Iran language, had Iranian naming styles, practiced Zorostrianism (in a different form), observed a fair number of cultural practices typical of Ancient Iranians, and were intermarried thoroughly with the clans of that Achaemenids and Sassanids. They WERE, however, horse-nomads, rather than the more urban and agrarian Archaemenid, Sassanids, Safavids, and Afsharids, but I'm not convinced that, alone, makes them a completely different people.
In that approach I see the Parthians as similar to the Scythians. The Scythians are also a nomadic group of Iranian people, but were distinct enough that they had their own civilization separate from Persia. In fact I wouldn't mind the idea of Parthia "replacing" Scythia as the Classical Era nomadic civ for Civ 7.
I also agree that the Seleucids are different too, but I don't think I'd ever make them a separate civilization when they are easily just another Greek/Macedonian state, of which we already have plenty of them in the games already. And I say that as a Hellenophile. :)
 
"The Iranian (or Persian) Peoples were a more diverse and poly-cultural notion than many give credit for today. Also, the concept of ethnicities was not nearly so cut and dry in those days as we view it today. How different the Partians and Sassanids saw each other from each other, as opposed to from non-Iranian speakers, and whether or not being from a different part of a massive empire known for political centrality, or being influenced by a culture that had a massive cultural influence, really had them seeing each other as that distinct has been up for debate. (@Zaarin, where are you?)
Iranian is a much broader term than Persian at least in the Ancient/Classical Era. If you are going to classify any ancient era Iranian people as Persian you'd have to include the Medes and others as well.
 
For the non-Persian Iranian slot, I would be pulling for the Sarmatians. Amazon warriors are a go. Could make the Unique unit models use women horseback riders and give them a UA that increases military supply cap from population (because they use their women to fight instead of locking them in the home)
 
If you are going to classify any ancient era Iranian people as Persian you'd have to include the Medes and others as well.
I would have no problem with doing that, given Cyrus regarded the Medean Empire as effectively the bedrock foundations he built his own on.

There is a Kurdish-Canadian man who lives in my building, in fact. He has intimated, strongly, the idea, that, even today, though Kurds no bettter of a, "deal," on autonomy and nationhood, all-in-all from Iran, than they do, and have, from Iraq, Syria, or Turkey, they feel closer, as a people, to Iranians than to Arabs, Turks, Assyrians, Yezhidi, or Iraqi and Syrian Turkmens - and a related language and history is part of that. The green-white-red horizontal tricolour on the Iranian (both Islamic Republic and Pahlavi Imperial), Kurdistani, and Tajik flags, and that of the Darso-spreaking-lead Northern Alliance, and now National Resistance in Afghanistan have a very symbolic value of Iranian-speaking heritage (South Osseita kind of sticks out for not using these colours). And while these certainly weren't the colours or patterns of Ancient Iranian Imperial Vexili, or Medieval Islamic Iranian Alam, a sense of an Iranian identity, especially building over time, can somewhat be seen - such as, in the Medieval Caliphates, Iranians were presumed by the Arab elite to be best bureaucrats, and they obviously coordinated for that advantage.
 
If there was to be a, non Persian Iranian slot," I would far rather see Saladin's Kurdish Ayyubid Sultanate.

And the idea of, "Amazons," among the Sarmations is largely believed to be women fighting alongside their fathers, brothers, husbands, and sons, in big battles, which no doubt caught the patriarchal Greeks off-guard. But everything after that, with Hippolyta and an all female-warrior elite, etc., is almost certainly Greek Mythical fetishism.
 
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Lets Go East!
For a second playable civ from the Iranian peoples could be more unique to look outside the Pontic Steppe and Iran. Some reasons:
- Parthian Empire pretty much overlaps with all the other Persia centered empires, especially in time culture and era with the more popular Achaemenid and Sasanian empires.
- Anyway the later modern muslim Iranian empires like Safavid would be way more useful to contrast vs the classical ones.
- Sarmatians never were a proper empire and they would add even more to the overcrowded Europe (think about the chance of a "Kievan/Ucranian" civ), also very similar to the recently used Scythians.
- Kurds lack significative entities (unless the whole Ayyubid are presented as Kurdish) and are in an also already crowded part of the map more if Armenians will be playable.
- Meanwhile one obvious option are the eastern iranian Afghans with the Durrani empire. Afghans are know for the common player, took a badly unused place in the map and could contrast well to the classical zoroastrian Persians.
- The Hephthalites or in a broader way the Huna are also a group with strong nomadic roots but that actualy formed a real empire. Speaking Bactrian and Sogdian could represent Central Asia Eastern Iranians, with strong influence from diverse religions like Buddhism, Manichaeism, Zoroastrianism and Nestorianism (Buddhas of Bamyan wonder). Also have an interesting relation with Sasanians as allies and foes. They could have a "nomadic" UU but also religion diversity + trade bonus design and contrast greatly with the later Tengrism+Muslim Turkco-Mongol civs of Central Asia.
 
- The Hephthalites or in a broader way the Huna are also a group with strong nomadic roots but that actualy formed a real empire. Speaking Bactrian and Sogdian could represent Central Asia Eastern Iranians
Actually, there's a strong archaeoloigcal and historical current saying Bactrian and Sogdian WEREN'T the languanges of the Hephthalites, themselves, but just those of the scribes they employed.
 
Actually, there's a strong archaeoloigcal and historical current saying Bactrian and Sogdian WEREN'T the languanges of the Hephthalites, themselves, but just those of the scribes they employed.
That is likely but the problem is that the (last time I checked) the exact affiliation of the Huna is disputed, considering the history of the region is presumable that they were already a mix of Iranian+Tocharian+Yeniseian+Turkic peoples in some degree. Also they stablished their empire's core over Bactria turning the already dominant native language into a necessary administrative, diplomatic and economic tool, so Bactrian is justificable to be the in-game language for Khushnavaz.
 
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finally reduxing my old wishlist doc from a while back:

America - Abraham Lincoln and JFK
Angola/Ndongo - Ana Nzinga
Arab - Harun al-Rashid
Armenia - Leo I
Ashanti - Osei Kofi Tutu
Australia - Henry Parkes (actually I'm not that enthusiastic about Australia, I'd rather an aboriginal civ but if that doesn't happen I'd at least prefer them over Canada)
Austria - Francis I
Aztec - Moctezuma II
Babylon - Hammurabi
Berber - Dihya
Bhutan - Ngawang Namgyal (yes I will admit this is mainly a substitute for Tibet)
Brazil - Juscelino Kubitschek (one of the most recent leaders, and the modernist Brasilia thing provides a lot of interesting potential)
Bulgaria - Simeon I
Burma - Anawrahta
Byzantium - Theodora
Chola - Rajaraja
China - Taizong and Cao Cao (I originally wanted Yongle instead of Cao Cao before the recent Civ7 DLC, I want an opportunity to explore more Chinese rulers)
Egypt - Hatshepsut and Akhenaten
England - Henry VIII and Alfred the Great (I was originally thinking about Elizabeth as well but idk about having 2 Tudors)
Ethiopia - Amda Seyon I
France - Louis XIV, Napoleon and Charlemagne (Charlemagne as a dual leader with Germany, like Kublai Khan or Eleanor in Civ6)
Germany - Frederick the Great and Charlemagne
Gothic - Theodoric
Greece - Alexander, Artemesia I and Pericles
Guarani - Sepé Tiaraju
Haida - Koyah
Haiti - Toussaint Louverture
Hawaii - Liliʻuokalani (This game's Polynesian representative)
Hittite - Puduḫepa
Iceland - Ingolfr Arnarson (A leftfield pick for this game's Norse representative. I also had the idea of him taking up Kupe's mechanic of starting at sea.)
Inca - Tupac Amaru
India - Gandhi and Ashoka (Gandhi is unavoidable for better or worse)
Inuit - Kiviuq
Italy - Giuseppe Garibaldi
Ireland - Gráinne O'Malley
Iroquois - Hiawatha
Japan - Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Himiko and Meiji
Java/Indonesia - Agung of Mataram
Korea - Taejo Wang Geon
Madagascar - Ranavalona I
Mali - Mansa Musa
Maya - Yax Kʼukʼ Moʼ
Mexico - Emiliano Zapata is my dream leader for Mexico, but since he seems unlikely I'm going to say Benito Juarez
Mongolia - Genghis Khan
Mughal - Akbar
Muisica - Saguamanchica
Mutapa/Zimbabwe - Matope Nyanhehwe Nebedza (I'd be interested in having a Southern African civ to replace the Zulus)
Netherlands - Willem van Orange
Noongar - Yagan (I am aware of the Aboriginal naming taboo, but to my understanding it only applies for a certain time after death as its linked to family members who directly knew them. Yagan lived 200 years ago also happens to have a statue that was erected by Noongar people themselves)
Ottoman - Mehmed II
Persia - Cyrus and Ismail I
Philippines - Gabriela Silang
Phoenicia - Dido and Hannibal
Poland - Sigismund III Vasa
Rome - Antoninus Pius
Russia - Catherine, Alexander Nevsky and Lenin (I am aware the latter is unlikely)
Siam - Suriyothai
Sogdia - Spitamenes
Spain - Isabella I
Sumeria - Gilgamesh and Ur-Nammu
Swahili - al-Hasan ibn Sulaiman
Vietnam - Trưng sisters (either Trưng Trắc or some mechanic where either can appear in different situations)
 
Aztec - Moctezuma II
A failed leader who helped lead his ciivlization to ruin - effectively on par with Nicholas II of Russia and Cixi and China.

Australia - Henry Parkes (actually I'm not that enthusiastic about Australia, I'd rather an aboriginal civ but if that doesn't happen I'd at least prefer them over Canada)
Post-Colonial Construct Civ's should be avoided (even possibly *gasp* America and Gandhi's take on Inida)

France - Louis XIV, Napoleon and Charlemagne (Charlemagne as a dual leader with Germany, like Kublai Khan or Eleanor in Civ6)
Germany - Frederick the Great and Charlemagne
If one is going to have Charlemagne, just give him his own, separate Frankish civ. His empire didn't really resemble either later Germany or France (or Italy, or the Low Countries) much at all, to be honest.
 
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