What leaders and/or nations do you want in Civilization VII?

On this Russia topic, Boris Godunov, Aleksander Nevsky, Dimitri Donteskii, or Yelisiveta could be a good choice.
 
The Cossacks were enemies of Russia until they were brought under control, so if they have to be in the game (and they don't!) they should be a Unique Unit that Russia can get from 'Barbarians' nearby or from a City State (Zaporozhye or Krasnodar would be good candidates). The distinctive Cossack Unit was not a 19th century Cavalry equivalent, but light cavalry lancers of the 17th - 18th century at a time when the lance had completely fallen out of favor almost everywhere else.
The cossacks are a perfect fit for that "pan-slavic" unique unit slot that I have in my civilization/leader split configuration. The Poles also used them, and they had a few independent polities of their own. For an alternate unit that is uniquely Slavic, but appears in several different cultures, a Voi, Druzhina, or Kholop might also fit the bill. None of those are as charismatic as the Cossacks though.
5. Shturmovik: The IL-2 attack aircraft, the first 'flying tank'. IF Civ VII gets air power right, or at least 1/3 right, this would be a better 'modern' Russian/Soviet UU than any ground unit: more
There's rolls for air units that civ has simply never put into the game: Torpedo bombers, fast bombers, dive bombers, ground attack planes, spy planes, etc.

Firaxis has adhered to a pretty strict air superiority fighter + strategic bomber dichotomy, and they seem to have trouble making even those limited rolls relevant. In Civ 5 they had guided missiles as a separate unit class, but they were dropped in civ 6, because they were useless (bad use of production to build units that kill themselves on attack). I find this state of affairs pretty funny, because strategic bombers have all but been completely supplanted by ICBMs and guided missiles. When you can deliver any payload up to a nuclear weapon with precision via an unmanned craft, there isn't much point in having large bombers.

Much as I'd like to see some distinction between strategic bombers and ground attackers, I can't envision how they would make it work. Maybe strategic bombers could have a large bonus vs cities, and be able to pillage tiles while ignoring the units on that tile, while ground attack planes and dive bombers could attack units directly? That would leave air superiority fighters in a sorry state unless those other two units are able to be useful and dangerous enough to make fighters worth it.
 
That makes more sense.
In Civ2, the nuclear unit is ONLY an ICBM, and there is no bomber. This gives more of the extistential dread of the Cold War view of nuclear weapons, and not the sick view of, "hope and glory," the B-29 image is supposed to give - and gives REAL gravity to these, you know, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
 
In Civ2, the nuclear unit is ONLY an ICBM, and there is no bomber. This gives more of the extistential dread of the Cold War view of nuclear weapons, and not the sick view of, "hope and glory," the B-29 image is supposed to give - and gives REAL gravity to these, you know, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
Gandhi
 
The cossacks are a perfect fit for that "pan-slavic" unique unit slot that I have in my civilization/leader split configuration. The Poles also used them, and they had a few independent polities of their own. For an alternate unit that is uniquely Slavic, but appears in several different cultures, a Voi, Druzhina, or Kholop might also fit the bill. None of those are as charismatic as the Cossacks though.
Cossacks away from the 'strictly Russian' viewpoint I was taking, are a good candidate for a Non-Civ Regional Power/Embarrassment in rthe game. Aside from being pretty independent even when they were supposed to be subordinate or allied, they were also worked for or with or against with Russians, Kievians, Lithuanians, and Poles. They basically controlled the steppes south of the Dnepr rapids and all the way from beyond the Volga to the east to the Carpathians in the west: the last of the great Steppe Powers on horseback.

There's rolls for air units that civ has simply never put into the game: Torpedo bombers, fast bombers, dive bombers, ground attack planes, spy planes, etc.

Firaxis has adhered to a pretty strict air superiority fighter + strategic bomber dichotomy, and they seem to have trouble making even those limited rolls relevant. In Civ 5 they had guided missiles as a separate unit class, but they were dropped in civ 6, because they were useless (bad use of production to build units that kill themselves on attack). I find this state of affairs pretty funny, because strategic bombers have all but been completely supplanted by ICBMs and guided missiles. When you can deliver any payload up to a nuclear weapon with precision via an unmanned craft, there isn't much point in having large bombers.

Much as I'd like to see some distinction between strategic bombers and ground attackers, I can't envision how they would make it work. Maybe strategic bombers could have a large bonus vs cities, and be able to pillage tiles while ignoring the units on that tile, while ground attack planes and dive bombers could attack units directly? That would leave air superiority fighters in a sorry state unless those other two units are able to be useful and dangerous enough to make fighters worth it.
See van Crefeld's The Age of Airpower, now over 10 years old, in which he argues exactly the point that manned aircraft are obsolete and only the affection of pilots for their planes and flying - similar to the affection of cavalrymen for their horses and riding - keeps manned aircraft in the military.
In the game, 'aircraft' could be replaced/upgraded to Cruise or Guided Missiles, Drones, Ultra-Long Range ground rocket/missiles (TACAMS has a range twice as long as any biplane fighter of WWI and longer than many of the fighters of WWII at the beginning of that war!) so that the 'last Era' (2000 +) sees increasing use of unmanned 'units' instead of the Very Expensive manned aircraft.
The current war in Ukraine has shown how marginal 'air superiority' fighters are: aircraft losses on both sides have been almost entirely to ground-based air defenses, to the point where the Russian air force has largely stopped flying over Ukrainian territory in manned aircraft - it's missiles and drones only, and the air defenses are proving pretty effective against those also.

So, 'air war' in future Civs has to both show the progression of manned aircraft from Flimsy Toys to Ubiquitous to Too Expensive to Obsolete and actually make them relevant enough to become Ubiquitous (1939 - 1975, roughly).
I'm not optimistic, because no Civ game yet as even come close . . .
 
Ah yes. When you adopt Democracy in Civ 7, you can build a special Gandhi unit that can be used to nuke cities.
I'm joking of course, but at least he wouldn't be a leader. :lol:
 
Gandhi has become a cartoon in his Civ portrayal, and I've long been a proponent of his replacement - preferably by multiple leaders in the Indian Subcontinent.
NGL, we could just replace nuclear missiles with Mahatma Gandhis jumping into a city.
 
Cossacks away from the 'strictly Russian' viewpoint I was taking, are a good candidate for a Non-Civ Regional Power/Embarrassment in rthe game. Aside from being pretty independent even when they were supposed to be subordinate or allied, they were also worked for or with or against with Russians, Kievians, Lithuanians, and Poles. They basically controlled the steppes south of the Dnepr rapids and all the way from beyond the Volga to the east to the Carpathians in the west: the last of the great Steppe Powers on horseback.


See van Crefeld's The Age of Airpower, now over 10 years old, in which he argues exactly the point that manned aircraft are obsolete and only the affection of pilots for their planes and flying - similar to the affection of cavalrymen for their horses and riding - keeps manned aircraft in the military.
In the game, 'aircraft' could be replaced/upgraded to Cruise or Guided Missiles, Drones, Ultra-Long Range ground rocket/missiles (TACAMS has a range twice as long as any biplane fighter of WWI and longer than many of the fighters of WWII at the beginning of that war!) so that the 'last Era' (2000 +) sees increasing use of unmanned 'units' instead of the Very Expensive manned aircraft.
The current war in Ukraine has shown how marginal 'air superiority' fighters are: aircraft losses on both sides have been almost entirely to ground-based air defenses, to the point where the Russian air force has largely stopped flying over Ukrainian territory in manned aircraft - it's missiles and drones only, and the air defenses are proving pretty effective against those also.

So, 'air war' in future Civs has to both show the progression of manned aircraft from Flimsy Toys to Ubiquitous to Too Expensive to Obsolete and actually make them relevant enough to become Ubiquitous (1939 - 1975, roughly).
I'm not optimistic, because no Civ game yet as even come close . . .
If civ ever saw fit to split ground-attack planes from interceptors -- rolls that were already starting to converge into the fighter-bomber during WWII -- then I would think the most appropriate base unit would be IL-2 Shturmovik. That mirrors the Bf 109's status as the default fighter and the B-24 Liberator as the default heavy bomber, since they are all the most-produced planes in their respective rolls.

A fascist ideology could furnish a Stuka dive bomber as a policy-unlocked unique replacement.

Sidebar: I've always felt that Firaxis could use French WW2-era equipment as the base units for everything. They had the full lineup of equipment and it was all mediocre to good quality, but none of it saw much action, so it wouldn't get in the way of any unique replacements.
 
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I think Fascism would more have something akin to Waffen-SS, MSVN, Hlinka's Guard, Japanese Imperial Guards' Brigade, etc. There is nothing at all inherently, "Fascist," about a dive bomber, and the U.S. Navy used some of their own in WW2, as well.
 
I think Fascism would more have something akin to Waffen-SS, MSVN, Hlinka's Guard, Japanese Imperial Guards' Brigade, etc. There is nothing at all inherently, "Fascist," about a dive bomber, and the U.S. Navy used some of their own in WW2, as well.
Honestly, I'm fine with using a Panzer as a default unit for a fascist government. That way a German civ could have more potential options opening up.
Nonsensical?
A lot of people aren't fond of bonuses towards tundra, such as Canada farms etc. Russia too but I don't necessarily mind as much, especially I like the way they integrated the blizzard immunity toward your units in your territory, but double damage towards other civs.
 
Honestly, I'm fine with using a Panzer as a default unit for a fascist government. That way a German civ could have more potential options opening up.
But that's viewing a Government type that's acquired later as custom-geared toward one civ, when that civ, while infamous for it (in a history few in that RL nation take pride in), was certainly not the only one, or even the first, to have such a form of Government, and arguably a broader list could be construed, and ways of views civ's who never had it in a mold where their own tendencies could embrace it. Like Communism with Russia - or Theocracy with Arabia... I feel a broader viewpoint and more generic, but appropriate, application, needs to be done in that kind of case.
 
But that's viewing a Government type that's acquired later as custom-geared toward one civ, when that civ, while infamous for it (in a history few in that RL nation take pride in), was certainly not the only one, or even the first, to have such a form of Government, and arguably a broader list could be construed, and ways of views civ's who never had it in a mold where their own tendencies could embrace it. Like Communism with Russia - or Theocracy with Arabia... I feel a broader viewpoint and more generic, but appropriate, application, needs to be done in that kind of case.
Wouldn't that be the same as a Waffen-SS or an Imperial Guard Brigade being the default unit, like you mentioned? I'm sure if they made a unit solely for that type of government, whenever you adopt it, it would have to reference one of the units of those civs: Germany, Japan, potentially Italy etc. A Panzer would probably be the most notable one to reference, and it was at least in Civ 3 to Civ 5 as Germany's UU already.
 
My base game would be:

1. America: Thomas Jefferson
2. Navajo: Manuelito

3. Maya: Lady Kʼawiil Ajaw
4. Muisca: Nemequene

5. Egypt: Hatshepsut and Akhenaten
6. Ashanti: Yaa Asantewaa

7. Greece: Pericles
8. Rome: Augustus Caesar
9. England: Elizabeth I
10. France: Luís XIV
11. Germany: Frederick the Great
12. Russia: Catherine the Great

13. Arabia: Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
14. Assyria: Ashurbanipal

15. China: Wu of Han and Wu Zetian
16. India: Akbar the Great and Ashoka
17. Japan: Kanmu
18. Vietnam: Trưng Trắc

19. Pre-order - Swahili: Abu al-Mawahib al-Hasan ibn Sulaiman

DLC 01 (Pacific pack)
20. Indonesia: Dyah Gitarja
21. Maori: Kupe

DLC 02 (North America pack)
22. Haudenosaunee: Hiawatha
American alt-leader: George Washington

DLC 03 (Latin America pack)
23. Brazil: Pedro II
24. Taíno: Anacaona

DLC 04 (Africa pack)
25. Ethiopia: Ezana
Egyptian alt-leader: Ramesses II

DLC 05 (Europe pack)
Greek alt-leader: Leonidas I
Roman alt-leader: Julius Caesar
English alt-leader: Victoria
France alt-leader: Napoleon Bonaparte

DLC 06 (Middle East and Central Asia pack)
26. Persia: Khosrow I
Arab alt-leader: Saladin

DLC 07 (East Asia pack)
27. Korea: Seondeok
Japanese alt-leader: Tokugawa
Continuing my Civilizations and leaders wishlist:

Expansion 01:
28. Aztec: Montezuma I
29. Argentina: Eva Perón
30. Ndongo: Nzinga Mbande
31. Spain: Isabella I
32. Denmark: Cnut
33. Ottomans: Suleiman I
34. Mongolia: Genghis Khan
Ashanti alt-leader: Osei Cofi Tutu I
Chinese alt-leader: Qin Shi Huang
Russian alt-leader: Ivan the Terrible

Expansion 02:
35. Cherokee: Attakullakulla
36. Inca: Huayna Capac
37. Mali: Mansa Musa
38. Netherlands: Willem van Oranje
39. Ireland: Grace O'Malley
40. Phoenicia: Dido
41. Siam: Narai the Great
Indian alt-leader: Nur Jahan
Mayan alt-leader: Pacal the Great
German alt-leader: Conrad II

DLC Pass 01:

DLC 01 (Pacific pack)
42. Hawaii: Kamehameha I
Indonesian alt-leader: Hayam Wuruk

DLC 02 (North America pack)
43. Canada: Lester B. Pearson
Haudenosaunee alt-leader: Alliquippa

DLC 03 (Latin America pack)
44. Guarani: Sepe Tiaraju
Brazilian alt-leader: Juscelino Kubitschek

DLC 04 (Africa pack)
45. Amazigh: Dihya
Ethiopian alt-leader: Zara Yaqob

DLC 05 (Western Europe pack)
46. Portugal: João III
Spanish alt-leader: Philip II

DLC 06 (Eastern Europe pack)
47. Byzantines: Theodora
48. Bohemia: Wenceslaus II

DLC 07 (Middle East and Central Asia pack)
49. Armenia: Tigranes the Great
Persian alt-leader: Cyrus

DLC 08 (East Asia pack)
50. Khmer: Jayavarman VII
Korean alt-leader: Taejo of Goryeo
 
Continuing my Civilizations and leaders wishlist:

Expansion 01:
28. Aztec: Montezuma I
29. Argentina: Eva Perón
30. Ndongo: Nzinga Mbande
31. Spain: Isabella I
32. Denmark: Cnut
33. Ottomans: Suleiman I
34. Mongolia: Genghis Khan
Ashanti alt-leader: Osei Cofi Tutu I
Chinese alt-leader: Qin Shi Huang
Russian alt-leader: Ivan the Terrible

Expansion 02:
35. Cherokee: Attakullakulla
36. Inca: Huayna Capac
37. Mali: Mansa Musa
38. Netherlands: Willem van Oranje
39. Ireland: Grace O'Malley
40. Phoenicia: Dido
41. Siam: Narai the Great
Indian alt-leader: Nur Jahan
Mayan alt-leader: Pacal the Great
German alt-leader: Conrad II

DLC Pass 01:

DLC 01 (Pacific pack)
42. Hawaii: Kamehameha I
Indonesian alt-leader: Hayam Wuruk

DLC 02 (North America pack)
43. Canada: Lester B. Pearson
Haudenosaunee alt-leader: Alliquippa

DLC 03 (Latin America pack)
44. Guarani: Sepe Tiaraju
Brazilian alt-leader: Juscelino Kubitschek

DLC 04 (Africa pack)
45. Amazigh: Dihya
Ethiopian alt-leader: Zara Yaqob

DLC 05 (Western Europe pack)
46. Portugal: João III
Spanish alt-leader: Philip II

DLC 06 (Eastern Europe pack)
47. Byzantines: Theodora
48. Bohemia: Wenceslaus II

DLC 07 (Middle East and Central Asia pack)
49. Armenia: Tigranes the Great
Persian alt-leader: Cyrus

DLC 08 (East Asia pack)
50. Khmer: Jayavarman VII
Korean alt-leader: Taejo of Goryeo
I love it!!!
 
Wouldn't that be the same as a Waffen-SS or an Imperial Guard Brigade being the default unit, like you mentioned? I'm sure if they made a unit solely for that type of government, whenever you adopt it, it would have to reference one of the units of those civs: Germany, Japan, potentially Italy etc. A Panzer would probably be the most notable one to reference, and it was at least in Civ 3 to Civ 5 as Germany's UU already.
What panzer are you talking about? There's lots of different ones. Civ 4 used a Panzer IV as its "panzer" UU while civ 5 used a Tiger I as the model.

Even the civ 5 pedia entry basically admits that the German tanks weren't actually all that great, and that it was only in conjunction with Germany's combined arms tactics and leadership structure that the tanks did as well as they did. A lot of that combined arms support was from the close air support given by the Stuka, which I think is both a more precise and more charismatic UU choice than any single one of Germany's tanks on its own.
 
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Wouldn't that be the same as a Waffen-SS or an Imperial Guard Brigade being the default unit, like you mentioned?
I used them as examples of a kind of unit that tends to exist in most Fascist Governments. It wouldn't have to be SPECIFICALLY one or two of them, just the general concept of elite party bully-boys having a military wing that tends to be separate from the main chain of command - which was a ubiquitous concept in general across Fascist systems. A Stuka or Panzer (the latter of which is just German for, "armour,), are not in any way such a concept, but are very specific in application. Am I clear, here?
 
Panzer VI (Tiger I) as Fascist unit, since it represent both the idea of a "Uber" weapon and man with propaganda figures like M. Wittmann (part of the Waffen-SS). And yes both Wittman and the Tiger fame are overrated products of the propaganda (at their time and present) but I think this portrait better the fascists delusions of superiority.
 
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