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What leaders do you miss in BTS?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Optimizer, Jul 23, 2007.

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What leaders should have been included in BTS?

  1. Thomas Jefferson, USA

    25 vote(s)
    12.4%
  2. Theodore Roosevelt, USA

    29 vote(s)
    14.4%
  3. Hiawatha, Native Americans

    33 vote(s)
    16.4%
  4. Philip II, Spain

    53 vote(s)
    26.4%
  5. Francisco Franco, Spain

    26 vote(s)
    12.9%
  6. Joan of Arc, France

    38 vote(s)
    18.9%
  7. Konrad Adenauer, Germany

    14 vote(s)
    7.0%
  8. Canute (Knut) the Great, Scandinavia

    47 vote(s)
    23.4%
  9. Nero, Rome

    21 vote(s)
    10.4%
  10. Maria Theresa, Holy Roman Empire

    32 vote(s)
    15.9%
  11. Theodora, Byzantine Empire

    35 vote(s)
    17.4%
  12. Vladimir Lenin, Russia

    44 vote(s)
    21.9%
  13. Cleopatra VII, Egypt

    44 vote(s)
    21.9%
  14. Tutankhamun, Egypt

    12 vote(s)
    6.0%
  15. Haile Selassie, Ethiopia

    32 vote(s)
    15.9%
  16. Abu Bakr, Arabia

    48 vote(s)
    23.9%
  17. Xerxes I, Persia

    49 vote(s)
    24.4%
  18. Jawaharlal Nehru, India

    6 vote(s)
    3.0%
  19. Indira Gandhi, India

    12 vote(s)
    6.0%
  20. Chiang Kai-shek, China

    17 vote(s)
    8.5%
  21. Deng Xiaoping, China

    13 vote(s)
    6.5%
  22. Meiji, Japan

    69 vote(s)
    34.3%
  23. Hirohito, Japan

    47 vote(s)
    23.4%
  24. Other

    46 vote(s)
    22.9%
  25. I am happy with the included leaders

    34 vote(s)
    16.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. R.B.

    R.B. King of the Meeps

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    Meeps
    Sergent Pepper would make a good English ruler in such a mod...
     
  2. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    Far from it. The state of Soviet Union had been worsening for years thanks to a multitude of factors. Reagan's aggressive policy helped, but was definitely not the prime determinant.

    He enacted economic measures that didn't bring the US from its recessions in the 1980's as expected, leading to an increase in poverty and poorer living standards. His appalling international policy ended up funding terrorist groups (who do you think Bin Laden got his weapons from, originally to fight the Soviets?) and placing violators of human rights in power all around the globe.

    But I digress... This isn't the right topic to discuss that.
     
  3. Dutch Canuck

    Dutch Canuck Khan of Flatlanders

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I voted for several, but I am also pleased with those included. The game can easily feature more! I'm not concerned if 2 leaders of different civs have the same traits - duplication like that only becomes redundant if you choose to allow "any leader for any civ" - which doesn't really work for me. (Sitting Bull of the Persians? That's too silly for me! :nono: :cringe:)

    I included Other as well. Joan of Arc seems as least as relevent as Boudicca to me, I like Hiawatha and I think many more NA leaders are possible. Canute, Theodora, Abu, Indira, Philip II and Meiji are all interesting. Chiang Kai-shek would be a good foil for Mao!
     
  4. Vrenir

    Vrenir King

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    Maryland
    To continue the political rabbit trail, I can't really argue with you about the whole "ended up funding terrorists and human rights violators," but it's not exactly abnormal for the US in the 20th or even 21st centuries. We're really quite bad at labeling allies of opportunity as life-long friends, arming them, and expecting them to conform themselves to whatever standards we set for them. Didn't work in Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, etc. We're supposedly arming Iraqui militias now simply because they've decided at the moment that they hate Al-Queda more than us (want to guess how long that alliance will last once Al-Queda's no longer in their backyards?). I frankly would not be at all surprised if Israel decided that they didn't like us sometime in the next couple of decades and made us regret funding them as well. Bottom line, Reagan did that sort of thing, but it's not a Reagan thing, it's an American thing.

    As far as his economic policies, that depends on who you ask. Some say he put the things in place that later fixed the recession. Others say that he made it worse and that his successors fixed it. I was only a few years old during his presidency, and I'm not an economist, so I'm not going to claim expertise. (I'm rather surprised to see somebody from Argentina making statements about internal American economics from two decades ago, but maybe you have qualifications that aren't apparent.)

    It's also true that Reagan really only contributed to the winning of the Cold War; the USSR wasn't exactly healthy and most seem to believe that it died a natural death from internal corruption. Nevertheless, Reagan made some good speeches and definitely did a great deal to a) help along the toppling of the Soviet Union and b) try to work with those who would be left when it fell.

    The bottom line is that Reagan may not have been great, but I'm not sure how many presidents that word can really be applied to. On the other side, he didn't screw things up nearly as much as some other leaders. Finally, Reagan is probably the last man in the White House that, after a number of history classes, news viewing, and independant research (his newly-released diaries are great), I still have a great deal of respect for as a level-headed man who really tried his best. He wasn't a status-quo guy, of a public relations snake, or a stubborn one-man show. He was just a really good, solid guy for all the good, solid guys in America.

    My four cents.

    Nevertheless, to bring this back on topic, I would leave him out of Civ, because America already has three leaders and doesn't need a fourth. If there was a fourth, he'd be my first choice because he a) represents the Cold War era, b) represents a more contemporary world, and c) is the only latter 20th century president who I think is generally well-liked still.
     
  5. OKScientist

    OKScientist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    89
    Alcibiades (for the Greeks) could be fun! He's probably the craziest I 've ever read about, although he betrayed everyone too often, and so nobody likes him :)
     
  6. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    Oct 14, 2005
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    While Joan of Arc was there in Civilization III, she shouldn't have, and she shouldn't be in Civ4 either. While she was a very important figure in France during her short life, she didn't rule the country (nor was anywhere near that position).


    PS: Leonidas for Greece, naturally ("This. Is. GREEEEEEEEECE!!!!!" :aargh:).

    Just kidding. :lol:
     
  7. MangleMeElmo

    MangleMeElmo Proud War Criminal

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    Who would suggest Hirohito over Meiji? :smoke: Meiji took Japan from being a medieval society to an industrial powerhouse capable of competing in the global market with Europe. Hirohito was just the puppet of a runaway military machine.
     
  8. Photi

    Photi Governor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2002
    Messages:
    700
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington
    I would like to see the Ayatollah Khomeni. Modern Iranians very much consider themselves the direct decendants of ancient persia. and Khomeni was arguably one of the most impactful leaders of the 20th C., whether or not you agree with that iimpact. Loved and adored by millions worldwide. Despised by millions worldwide. The UU could be the basijis to take the place of modern infantry or whatever that unit is and gets some bonus against modern armour and a +50 bonus against Babylon or Sumeria. that'd be cool.
     
  9. sela1s1son

    sela1s1son King

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    988
    Location:
    Boodleburg Imperial Palace in Switz
    I picked both American leaders (both due to my really liking them (both), and partially due to likely bias as an American).

    Of all of the ones I chose I probably miss Canute the most! That and maybe no helmet with Horns ;)

    I also voted for Abu Bakr and Lenin.
     
  10. MrZeddify

    MrZeddify Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    I miss a Swedish civ to be quite frank. Compared to a couple of the other civs 'times of greatness' during history, swedens was not a short one. I would really want to see a swedish civ with Karl XII as leader.

    'Sweden was, between 1611 and 1718, one of the great powers of Europe. In modern historiography this period is known as the Swedish Empire, or Stormaktstiden'

    Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire

    Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Sweden_as_a_Great_Power
     
  11. Shylock

    Shylock Hey smiling strange

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
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    2,769
    Location:
    Los Anzeless
    I wouldn't mind if leaderheads had the ability to be a .jpg or something, or even if they couldn't be animated at all.

    If I want my civiilsation to be represented by a turkey sandwich or a giant penis with Mr Potato Head accessories I should be able to just go to google images and maybe fire up GIMP or Photoshop and import it in.
     
  12. Gaius Octavius

    Gaius Octavius Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,016
    You have just shot up about 50 points in my estimation, Grave (if that's even possible). :goodjob:

    We should get someone to make a 3D LH of him like in Civ 3.
     
  13. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    Up North
    Adolf Hitler. One of the best dictators of all time.
     
  14. MangleMeElmo

    MangleMeElmo Proud War Criminal

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    213
    Argh! I wish people would stop trying to start crap about Adolf 'My Own Voice Gives Me an Erection' Hitler! Cripes, we've had enough flame wars over this tired old subject.
     
  15. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    Up North
    It`s just my opinion and you are free to disagree. I just said I liked to have him in the game.
     
  16. DukeTancred

    DukeTancred Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    16
    I think Ali should be in there instead of Abu Bakr for the Arabs. I would prefer for there to be a non-Muslim Arab in there, but in pre-Islamic times the Arabs were not a significant power.
    However, I'd also say Haile Selassie, who was probably as great as Zara Yabob but also far more widely known for Ethiopia, also perhaps Vercingetorix for the Celts should be in there.
    I think leaders should be very individual but also chronologically spread out. For this reason I think they should have either Ivan the Great or Ivan the Terrible instead of Peter the Great and Catherine the Great, who were both leaders during the 18th century Russian Enlightenment. Similarly, I don't think having Xerxes or Darius as well as Cyrus is a good idea. Khosrau I, Sassanid Emperor, would be more interesting.
     
  17. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    Ali? What Ali?
     
  18. gostanford22

    gostanford22 Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    California
    Franco, Hirohito and the man above all men teddy roosevelt!!!!!!!
     
  19. bselig

    bselig Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Why the heck would Chiang Kai-shek be in anything other then a WWII scenario
     
  20. Maldren

    Maldren Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Costa Rica
    I voted for Phillip II, Spain needs another leader and Franco is just to offensive... at least for me personally :mad: just like Hitler or Mussolini would be for other people.

    <- By the way I had to create another account, I just got BTS and started playing Civ again but forgot my username and everything else... :confused:
     

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