What makes walls disapear with lvl 2 cities

[nick0515]

Can someone tell me what factor it is that makes walls only work with city size 1? Civil defense also gives a 50% defensive bonus but it works with all levels. There are a few differences between the two improvements, which one is it that makes walls behave the way they do?

Cheers

Nick

 

[Civinator]

It´s the combat value against bombardements.

 

[nick0515]

It´s the combat value against bombardements.

Thanks Civinator. Will any improvement with a combat value against bombardements behave exactly like the Walls improvement in regualr civ?

Cheers

Nick

 

[Vuldacon]

nick0515... if you set the same settings as Walls in the editor for another Improvement, it will provide those features but naturally, the Improvement can be destroyed so it would then have to be Rebuilt.

 

[timerover51]

Can someone tell me what factor it is that makes walls only work with city size 1? Civil defense also gives a 50% defensive bonus but it works with all levels. There are a few differences between the two improvements, which one is it that makes walls behave the way they do?

Cheers

Nick

The walls only being available to City size 1 is hard-coded in the game, and cannot be changed. The fastest way to get around the disappearance, and one that cannot be eliminated is change the defense rating of Towns, Cities, and Metropolis in the Editors General Settings Menu. Those setting increase all the defensive values for the city. That is what I have done in my modifications to the game. However, if you do that, you will find that taking cities is considerably more difficult. Your other option is, if you want to keep the walls, then increase the population of your town to something like 20 or so, which would keep the walls in play a lot longer. In TETurkhan's Test of Time scenario, he has the town setting somewhere in the 20s, so walls are around for a long time.

 

[nick0515]

Thanks Vuldacon and Timerover. I think I fully uderstand it now. I may end up increasing the size of level 1 cities. Also I want to add some buildings that give defensive bonuses but I didn't want them to act like walls do.

 

[timerover51]

You could add bonuses to the barracks, police station, and coast defense fortress without making any new buildings. You just need to change the combat value settings for each building. It all depends on what your objective is.

 

[tom2050]

Thanks Vuldacon and Timerover. I think I fully uderstand it now. I may end up increasing the size of level 1 cities. Also I want to add some buildings that give defensive bonuses but I didn't want them to act like walls do.

Note though, I've tested to see if defensive bonus's such as walls are cumalative or not, and they are NOT... so if you add another building that has the same defensive bonus as the civil defense.... you will not get 100% defense, but still just 50%. If one of those buildings has a higher defense than the other, the building with the highest defense will be used, and the other building with lower defense will be ignored.

So if you wish to have a building provide 10% more defensive over Civil Defense, you would have to add another building that gives 60% defense (which would make Civil Defense defense bonus obsolete).

Tom

 

[nick0515]

Note though, I've tested to see if defensive bonus's such as walls are cumalative or not, and they are NOT... so if you add another building that has the same defensive bonus as the civil defense.... you will not get 100% defense, but still just 50%. If one of those buildings has a higher defense than the other, the building with the highest defense will be used, and the other building with lower defense will be ignored.

So if you wish to have a building provide 10% more defensive over Civil Defense, you would have to add another building that gives 60% defense (which would make Civil Defense defense bonus obsolete).

Tom

Thanks Tom, that is important to know. That's stupid that it isn't cumalative. But I guess it's the same result if you do what you suggest.

 

[nick0515]

You could add bonuses to the barracks, police station, and coast defense fortress without making any new buildings. You just need to change the combat value settings for each building. It all depends on what your objective is.

Actually it was more of general question for future use in scenarios I'm working on so I'm not quite sure what buildings I'll be using it for. One fanatsay scenario will have all new buildings and I'm toyig with the idea of having a range of small wonder's that give defensive bonuses to cities, so that a player can choose to have some strategically placed cities stronger than other less important cities.

Tom's point creates something of a problem for this though. I was planning to have the small wonders give 25% defensive bonuses, but there would have been enough of them that a player could have built two or three in a city, but since they aren't cumulative that won't work. Also I wonder if the AI is smart enough to know the small wonder's are not cumulative? They might build lots of the SW's in one city and still only get a 25% bonus. Will have to rethink that one I guess.

 

[Steph]

About the cumulative, if you make a building require another, you have a kind of simulation of the effect.

Wall = 20 % + Tower = 40% and requires wall

as the same effect

as Wall = 20 %, Tower = 20 %, cumulative.

 

[nick0515]

Thanks Steph, that's very clearly laid out!

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Also note: if you give Great Wonders a defensive bonus, they can only be built in size 1 cities, but will not disappear when the city reaches size 2.... There was one wonder like this in the Warhammer 2.0 mod (don't remember if that got fixed in WH 2.5 or not, but it was funny when I had to turn my capitol into a settler/worker factory to drop its pop down to 6 so I could start building it )