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What Makes Your Blood Boil?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Commodore, May 12, 2017.

  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy Deity

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    Fear is effective. It's not always healthy. Seems like you would argue it can be used to reinforce dysfunction. Can't say I'm surprised it works.
     
  2. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I'm close to the Buddha in terms of being calm. There's absolutely nothing I can think of that completely enrages me aside from very extreme scenarios. There are a few things that tick me off though.

    1) People walking extremely slowly, in groups. Blocking the entire sidewalk/street. I enjoy walking a lot and for me this is pure torture.

    2) Singing when it's not appropriate, especially in movies. It's mostly godawful, too. Same goes for musicals. Which doesn't mean I don't enjoy singing, I just dislike unnecessary singing.

    3) Not being able to express what I feel/want to say/think. Sometimes the words just don't come out at all and it's extremely frustrating.
     
  3. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    So you asked two people about their personal experiences and now you think you know how "it was like to live during that time"? I don't think that's reasonable at all.

    Going back to WW2, you can ask a German who was for the Nazis and a German who was against the Nazis, and you can be very sure that both will tell you very different stories.

    And now imagine you had been receptive to what he said. What a terrible outcome that would have been. Well, or maybe not, maybe life as a JW would have been great, and believing in a higher being would have freed you from the shackles of our mortal life. Point being... who do you believe in the end? The people who'll say stuff you find agreeable, and you'll call them "wise", but you still don't get to know anything about the past, you learn about their version of the past.

    What a waste of time and space, right?


    I'm not sure how this is related to the discussion at hand. The people who are unable or unwilling to draw information from the internet, will most certainly not gain much knowledge from old people either, other than maybe asking their grandpa once and then assuming it's true because it sounded nice. That's a problem with the attitude, because most people don't care (Hell, I don't really care as much as I think I should either), and let's be honest here, most people have not cared for as long as there were other things to have fun with other than sitting around with your family.

    Oh, for sure. The difference is, we know young people (well, all people, but young people in particular) are stupid and believe whatever fits their world view, and are prone to being emotionally manipulated. We wouldn't take anything they say as accurate information.

    With old people, we have somehow decided that because they've lived so long, and because they've seen so much, that somehow has balanced things out and pushed them towards what is "objectively true". That's simply not how it works for most people, what you get from most people are memories that are based on the biased filter of our brain. That's nice if you enjoy stories of individuals, it's terrible if you actually want to "learn about history".
     
  4. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    The hell do I know.

    I just know there's no way we're sending my parents to a "home" when they are old. Screw that. We love our parents.
     
  5. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    Sometimes there's nothing you can do if someone needs round the clock care and you can't afford it.
     
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy Deity

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    The fun thing about hanging around with people is you get to draw from a perspective formed over a lifetime. Different ones draw from different lifetimes. There's so much information in a small group of people your parents age that you cannot possibly incorparate all of it. You don't have enough time. Looking something up on the internet is different from hanging out with somebody. You'll learn differently. Reading something is not watching something is not hearing somebody talk about it is not doing something with help is not doing something alone. They're all different.


    I am a bit befuddled by your use of the words "objectively true" here. What on earth do you think history is? A debate to be won? A Truth to be won through study of pure scriptures and Revelation? Code to compile? It's just people man, swept up by this big crazy complicated world of ours.
     
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  7. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    There is definitely something you can do, which is taking care of them. If you make the conscious decision to sacrifice your free time/job/hobby, whatever, that is. Me personally I don't think retirement homes are all that bad though. My parents have some crazy plans for later anyway so I'm really not worried.
     
  8. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I used to work in musical theatre, backstage, on the properties, costume, and front-of-house crews. So I'm quite used to plays where people suddenly start singing.

    Granted, some of the songs are dumb. Or some of the people performing them are miscast. I watched a televised performance of Peter Pan last year and realized that some of it was just plain racist (the parts about Tiger Lily); this is something I hadn't really noticed back in 1987 when I worked on a production of Peter Pan. But the musical is an art form, and some of them are superlative.

    West Side Story, for example, is based on Romeo and Juliet. Working on a production of Jesus Christ Superstar (the first time; I've worked on two different ones, 20 years apart) is what prompted me to read the New Testament (there were references I didn't understand). I read the Old Testament to get the context of what was going on in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat (both of these are among my favorite musicals, albeit the proper term for them is "rock opera").


    For your third point above, I agree completely. I'm much better at expressing myself by writing than by speaking.

    I know what it was like for those particular people. Of course a family of Prairie farmers are going to experience the 1930s differently from people in other regions, other countries, other occupations, other income brackets, etc.

    Of course everyone has a different story. Life is different for every individual person.


    :rolleyes:

    Why should I be receptive to anti-science nonsense and a belief that requires its members to go around knocking on doors, hassling people to buy their pamphlets? Why would I be receptive to a belief that blood transfusions are "sinful"?

    Did I ever call any of my grandparents or others of their generation "wise"? No, I didn't. Age doesn't automatically grant wisdom. It does, however, grant life experience, and your attitude reminds me of a certain 16-year-old ex-member here who thought he knew everything. I've met people like that in RL as well, and found them thoroughly obnoxious.


    If you think my grandfather was "nice" or that I claimed that, you haven't been paying attention to my posts. He could be nice at times. We fought and argued a lot, though. It took 15 years after his death for me to even start to forgive him for some of the awful things he said over the years.

    A person who was actually present at a historical event, during a specific time, or was directly affected and communicates about it is what is known in cultural anthropology or history as a "primary source."

    Does it mean these people are 100% truthful? No. But it's better than nothing, because it provides a starting point to investigate and learn.

    And if they should develop a medical condition that none of you are equipped to handle? Sometimes it's the only possible thing to do.

    I can't even have my dad over for a visit. He tends to fall, and if he did that here, I'm not strong enough to pick him back up. A wheelchair isn't doable, since this apartment wasn't built with wheelchairs in mind (narrow doorways and weird angles).
     
  9. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    West Side Story isn't all that bad, you're right. I, too, am reading the bible just for context/references :~)
     
  10. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Well yeah, obviously they are, but you're still not really making a point about what personal dialog with old people can give us that personal dialog with other people cannot, other than the personal account of how things worked in their lives. That can be fun to listen to, sure, I listened to my Grandma a lot when she was still able to tell these stories, but it's not of any greater value. Make a documentary where you ask 300 people for their personal experiences and combine them to draw an overall picture, then you start creating value, but that 1on1-dialog? Not any different from any 1on1-dialog with any other mature-age person, other than they'll likely be slower and more old-fashioned.

    Of course this whole discussion is seriously weird because somewhere in-between we went from my making the intentionally bigoted, shock-humor-ish remark of old people being a drain on society by only focusing on what they put into and take out of the system in terms of monetary value, to me now somewhat defending that remark as a broader idea because I disagree with the way that talking to them is presented as this spiritual, great experience, when in reality I disagree with either of those.

    I put that in quotation marks for a reason. What I mean is a greater picture built on the evidence available, and the collective account of the people who lived at that time, as much as these accounts are still available to us.
     
  11. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Being forced to follow a rule where there is no apparent justification. Everything from an exceptionally stupid/arbitrary rule at a job ( or class assignment ) to a silly law ( Marijuana prohibition, dry counties, etc. )

    I can do a 180 from being someone who refuses to follow rule X to being someone who helps enforce rule X so long as you can explain why to me. It doesn't take a lot, even just "because we're enforcing a consistent style" will do it for me sometimes. "Because I said so" or "It's important that we maintain order" will not work for me and will only make me angrier.
     
  12. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    So you discount one person's experiences, but would be willing to believe them if 299 other people participated in the conversation?

    You're still making unfounded assumptions about "slower". Even "more old-fashioned" is not a given. I know you don't like anecdotes, but too damn bad. As I said before, my life is not documented in charts or graphs or written up as a Wikipedia article. So here goes the anecdote:

    To compare my mother's and her mother's attitudes about marriage and kids was a surprise to me. I'd bumped into my maternal grandparents unexpectedly at the mall, and we decided to have an afternoon snack at the Chinese restaurant. Of course my grandmother wanted to know if I was seeing anyone (I was in my 20s at the time so it was a natural question for her to ask). I said there was a guy who I'd known since high school, but we were just friends at this point, although it didn't stop my mom from anticipating a wedding announcement. Then my grandmother said something that surprised me and my mom: She said I should live with the guy (whoever I was contemplating a life with) first, to see if it would be likely to work out. After thinking about it, I realized that she was giving me that advice because she didn't want me to end up like my mom and aunts - all of whom went through bitter divorces. When I told my mother about this conversation, she was flabbergasted. "Grandma said that?!"

    Yep. Good advice from my maternal grandmother, and my mother didn't shut up about me having kids for another 20 years.

    Your comment was offensive, and not at all funny. As an over-50, I'm now eligible for some seniors' discounts (haven't taken advantage of any, although I do take advantage of some services at the local seniors' drop-in centre; they also serve younger adults who are physically disabled). There are some members of this forum who are seniors (in terms of how many years they've lived, not that they're not still young in mind). So yeah, it was insulting.

    And you're putting words on other people's keyboards, because nobody said that talking to seniors was a "spiritual" experience.

    I grew up with people who were a couple of generations older than me. My age now is approximately the age my grandmother was when I was born. I always knew her as a white-haired older woman who wore housedresses and deferred to my grandfather (he was over 60 when I was born). So older people and elderly people don't scare me.
     
  13. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I don't discount one person's experiences, I just know that memories aren't particularly accurate, and that personal biases are one of the major factors that taint memories. So yeah, if you add more and more people, then you get a more accurate picture. Obvious, isn't it?

    You won't get to "the truth", or to "what objectively happened on the greater scale", but you'll certainly get a good piucture of how the average person experienced the things that were happening, which one person simply cannot provide.

    I mean, this is a common thread in many of our "discussions" here, you say: "Oh, this one person said..." as if it meant anything in the greater picture. It simply doesn't. It's nice as an anecdote, yeah, and maybe there's some lesson to be learned, but that's where it ends.

    See, that's great and all, but I'm not even 30 yet, and I would give you the same advice. So no, has nothing to do with age, if anything, it's probably the difference between being a realist and an optimist, and knowing that most relationships that are built on the love of the moment don't work out, and that one should make sure that there's more in a relationship than just the hormones going wild and clouding up all the problems that will show themselves when you try living with that person for a while before making a final judgement.

    Well, I found it pretty funny, and still do think it's pretty funny. Maybe not perfectly suited for the environment of this forum as evidenced by the fact that I got people upset instead of getting some equally funny comments back, I'll give you that.

    But heeeey, in the end it's in the spirit of this thread, isn't it? Is your blood boiling yet? ;)

    Well yeah, that was a hyperbole.

    Elderly people generally don't scare me either, although there was that one woman to whom time really wasn't very kind. Her face had an almost skeletal form, that seriously shocked me. Wouldn't want to meet her at night.
     
  14. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    And if you have one person saying the Holocaust happened and 299 saying it didn't?

    Ask a group of people in my generation about the fashions and music and other popular culture of the 1970s. Some will say, "OMG, what the hell were we thinking? It was AWFUL!!!".

    Others will say the '70s were a great decade, the fashions were fun, and in general they will say positive things.

    Good luck finding that "average person."

    As for me? I liked '70s fashion for the most part, I'm one of the many people who experienced standing in blocks-long lineups to see Star Wars in the theatre, and tolerated '70s music (I was raised on music from earlier decades). Mind you, it was a stressful decade in some ways, too.

    Oh, and there was no internet. We had to read real newspapers, and if we wanted to look something up, we went to the library (or, as my grandfather did, bought a set of Encyclopedia Britannica). The closest thing anybody could imagine to Wikipedia was the library computer on Star Trek.

    Why the obnoxious air quotes?


    WHOOSH! and the point of my post just flew over your head, there it goes!

    It's not what advice was given. It's who gave it. Yes, it's sensible advice... but not what you'd expect from somebody born in the early 1920s. It's more like I'd expect from my mother, since she only married her second husband after several years of living with him (24 years later he finally admitted he was cheating on her with a woman 20 years younger than she was, and said he wanted a divorce). But my mother kept nagging me about when was I getting married. Even a casual date to see a movie with someone got blown all out of proportion ("Is it SERIOUS?!").


    The point of the thread isn't to upset other posters. It's to talk about things that consistently make us very angry.
     
  15. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    And if you have one person saying "the Holocaust didn't happen" but as it's the only person you talk you have no differing viewpoint ?

    It certainly has a much, much (MUCH) higher chance to happen than to have your weird 299 vs 1 scenario.
    That's the whole point of statistics and the whole reason why anecdotes, often sometimes fun and sometimes insightful, have no weight when it comes to argumentation.
     
  16. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy Deity

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    I find it amusing that in order to make this line of thought work it requires taking entire lifetimes of experience and reducing them to a lifetime, so that it qualifies as an anecdote or single data point rather than repeated experience after repeated experience after repeated experience. Also, it requires assuming that during that lifetime the datum had no access to data.

    Also, Ryika, if you want to make a silly trollish jab, generally, you indicate that by something like an emotocon when somebody pushes back on it instead of "well, isn't it true?" I'm finding your "why are we even talking about this?" Mea culpa a bit insincere when you feel obliged to lay out argumentation in support of your broad claim of people being useless "because internet." Yikes.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
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  17. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Hu, no, it's just understanding the concepts of subjectivity and statistics.
     
  18. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy Deity

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  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    drivers who get in the fast lane and keep it on cruise while they pass people on the right at a snail's pace as people cram together behind them

    oh yeah, lousy cop drivers... Haven't seen too many of them but one guy sat in the fast lane on cruise and of course no one (3 cars) wanted to pass him much less on the right, but an ambulance with its lights on came up behind us all.

    This was a divided 4 lane freeway so the 3 of us occupied the right lane as the ambulance came up in the fast lane. The cop was apparently oblivious to the ambulance with flashing lights approaching him. Then he saw the ambulance (doh) as it was within a few car lengths and the cop pulled into our lane and hit his brakes. I was last in line as everyone hit their brakes because of the cop so I just got in behind the ambulance and passed everyone.

    The cop eventually got back in the fast lane and came up even with me and gave me a look. If he had pulled me over I was gonna let him know he damn near caused a multiple car crash and how I should be filing a report on him for that idiocy.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  20. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    My point is that the Holocaust happened, and the hypothetical 299 people who say it didn't are wrong.
     

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