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What of we didn't buy the DLC?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by jtb1127, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. radiohodet

    radiohodet Chieftain

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    Dragon Age 2 had 15 different DLC available at release date and here people are whining about a civ or two every now and then for 3,5 euro..... It's the end of the world! :p

    Seriously, what makes anyone think Civilzation players are more holy than anyone else? People obviously buys them and will continue to buy them.
     
  2. Vordeo

    Vordeo King

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    Well, that's easily one of the more ridiculous comments I've read on this board (and on this board, that's saying something).

    With PC games, that's generally a good idea anyway.

    Of course, you give up a year of playing a game, but your call.

    Or, given that some people are more than happy to pay $5 per DLC, it means that the actual game is underpriced.

    Also, the fact that there are several people on this board saying they're happy to pay the $5 miiiight indicate that opinions on this are hardly universal.

    Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
     
  3. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    i'm pretty sure the last time i called anyone either of these things was a few years after i started heavily using the internet because i realized how lame it makes people sound.
     
  4. forty2j

    forty2j King

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    Just want you to know - this comment inspired me to buy the DLC yesterday that I had been putting off. (Well, a 50% flash sale on it at GameAgent may have contributed.)
     
  5. Michl2602

    Michl2602 Warlord

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    overpriced?

    I can be busy for a whole year, if I try to win the Maori-szenario on Diety (not that I plan to do this :)).

    The Polynesian DLC (civ+szenario) cost me less than 4 EUR. If I would only make business like this in my RL, I would be rich by now. :)
     
  6. brianshapiro

    brianshapiro King

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    Yes the Civ crack addicts who will buy the DLCs at any price. I've bought some DLCs also. None of this is really the point. Maybe if people saw the price of games as fairer more people outside the fan circles will buy them, and less will pirate. Especially when there's a multiplayer service attached like there is with Steam.

    The thing is that Firaxis has been worried about marketing Civ to a broader audience; but maybe changing the game is not the way to do it.

    Movie tickets are at most $10 and many people here are trying to make the argument that gameplay offers more hours, but movies are also much more expensive to produce. Many more people also go out to see movies in theaters or on TV rather than downloading pirated rips, than do download games vs use pirated copies.
     
  7. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    DLC-hate weirds me out a little bit. I would understand it if they were releasing critical systems that fix glaring problems with the game with DLC, but they're demonstrably doing the opposite. They're releasing things which are definitely not core to the experience, that you can legitimately buy or not buy as you see fit, while continuing to aggressively release patches for the core game for no cost.

    I totally get not thinking DLC is worth the cost. I just don't get the hate - I don't understand why the people who don't think it's worth the cost tend to viscerally hate it and rip on the people who are willing to pay it. The only argument I've seen that this DLC is pernicious is that it's a slippery slope... but the slippery slope is a well known fallacy, not a good argument.
     
  8. Vordeo

    Vordeo King

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    That's a ridiculous assertion. There are people who'll buy Civ product at any price, but dismissing everyone who'll buy product at a price you personally think is too much as 'Civ crack addicts' is absolutely ridiculous.

    Based off the thread title and OP, I'd say DLC pricing is most certainly the point.

    No need to bash CiV for following the pricing structure of the entire gaming industry though.

    The biggest hole in that argument is probably that movies have a far, far greater audience than video games (especially niche strategy video games like CiV). That larger audience allows them to charge a much lower price than game companies, despite their larger budgets. If game companies could manage to get the numbers movies do at $10 a pop, they'd jump at it.
     
  9. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    moot point, but pretty sure it was more like 11 bucks the last time i went to a movie. and then there's imax, which is even more expensive.
     
  10. brianshapiro

    brianshapiro King

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    This is what bothers me from your end of this argument. Every disagreement with the pricing decisions of CiV is referred to as 'bashing'. I'm not bashing, just stating my view. It should be possible to state my view about pricing without people getting defensive, like I'm hurting someone's feelings.

    The point is just that Civ fans -- people who come on this board -- are going to want to buy every single thing relating to Civ even if the price is high, that's why the board is called "CivFanatics", its for fanatics. That's just how a lot of us are. I bought the DLCs even though I think the price is too high. It shouldn't stop me from stating my opinion.

    The fans of other games are pretty similar, and that's how gaming companies are currently making money -- by milking the fans. The question is whether it benefits the games in the end to make money off of the die-hard fans in this way or cater to a broader audience with lower prices. iPhone apps have proven its possible to make money off of games at low prices if they're marketed right.

    Its not a hole if you believe if game prices go lower, the audience for the games will go up, or the less people will pirate those games. It all depends on whether you believe that to be true. I do. I believe game companies are being too conservative about their pricing decisions and are not willing to take the risk.
     
  11. Vordeo

    Vordeo King

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    Okay, fair enough.

    Let me rephrase: I don't think it's fair to single out CiV for following the pricing structure every other game in the industry is following.

    I've no problem with your stating your opinion. I just thought that portraying everyone who bought the DLC at $5 as addicts who'll buy it at any price was a bit silly.

    You really think people would be defending the price as much if it was set at say, $50?

    They're following standard video game pricing: lowering prices might increase sales, but it won't make the game more mainstream.

    Again, different industry model. iPhone apps are generally far cheaper to make than games.

    I believe that prices certainly affect game sales. It's the law of supply and demand, and I have an economics degree.

    However, I don't believe that if, for instance, CiV dropped their pricing to $10 they would make a higher profit than they do at $50. Yes, they'd sell more units, but even with the increased audience I just don't think the number of people interested in spending money on the game would be enough to increase unit sales to over five times it's normal level. Simply put, the market for strategy games simply isn't that big.

    Now, charging small sums for games (even at a loss if necessary) and making money mostly off DLC by exploiting your large user base is a valid strategy. It just wouldn't work for CiV, IMO.
     
  12. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    For a company making decisions for an individual product, however, the audience is pretty much set. For instance, the vast majority of games don't drive sales of PCs/consoles. Your market for a game can't be larger than the install base of the computer that can run it.

    For another thing, gaming tends to be a time-intensive hobby, rather than a simple one-off like a movie. Most games take between 10 and 30 times as much time to complete as movies do. The consequence is that movies can be sold to anyone who might have the time for a 2 hour session, while games can only be sold to people who have time to have gaming be a hobby.
     
  13. Beef Hammer

    Beef Hammer Warlord

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    ROFL then you must not have gone to college. I even had professors that ENCOURAGE it, :lol: It was actually VERY common to crack a single adobe program for the entire class. People training/being trained into this fields are VERY AGAINST crap like DLC.

    As far "losing a year of gaming", well, there are several ways to play the game still, and not ones that involve piracy even!

    Note: I'm not encouraging it, just making a point.
     
  14. brianshapiro

    brianshapiro King

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    I didn't mean to say "addict" as derogatory. There are a lot of players on these forums that have said things like "I don't care how bad a Civ game is, I'll buy it because its Civ". They wouldn't be able to price it up to $50, but I think some people here would buy it over $10, even as they complain about it.

    Its the same for fanbases of any other game, and thats why the DLC model is successful, the game producers rely on their fanbases to milk money. The question is if that's the right approach.

    A DLC is no more work than an iPhone app. In fact I expect a lot of our community here will be able to produce more complex content, the only thing lacking will be the artwork, which Firaxis designers are very good at making.

    Just looking at their sales figures
    http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/43507/sid-meiers-civilization-v/
    I personally think they could afford to take the risk of lowering the price.

    But that's just my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I just think the company should be encouraged on this.
     
  15. sharkles

    sharkles Chieftain

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    People can complain about it, but if they're buying it - their demand is outweighing or at least on par with the price point.
    That's not Firaxis' fault.
     
  16. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Moderator Action: I'd appreciate if the discussion calmed a bit down.

    You must be following the wrong boards. Currently the DLC is rant topic #1, and not the "noobs" are ranting.
    I'm a fanatic, and i would not buy any of this stuff, because i think the whole bussiness model will ruin PC gaming. Doesn't make me less a fanatic.
     
  17. brianshapiro

    brianshapiro King

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    I think its up for debate why Civilization isn't more mainstream.

    Some people feel its because Civ is essentially a geek's game, designed for people who like strategy and history. But using an analogy to the movie industry: well produced, engrossing movies about history earn a lot of money at the Box office, while boring period pieces don't. There are a number of examples of high grossing historical films. As for strategy, chess is also a relatively mainstream game, and Civilization is a lot less intimidating, in my view, than chess.

    I'd concede the fact that there are a lot of games that do well in the mainstream at the same prices as Civ. But a lot of long time Civ players would be surprised at how many people -- even young people -- have never even heard of the game in the first place. If people haven't heard of a game, they won't buy it. The problem in my view isn't necessarily the smaller audience, but that games like Civ don't market as easily ; so you need a good strategy for marketing. The pricing model could be one aspect of this strategy, to encourage people to try the game who normally wouldn't.
     
  18. ash88

    ash88 Hail to the King Baby -DN

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    For my part I'm not buying the DLC for Civ5.

    Given that I have bought all the DLC for games like Dragon Age and Total War this is a statement!
     
  19. Shinigami84

    Shinigami84 Chieftain

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    Um... nothing would change because I haven't purchased a single DLC in my life :D
    Have no intentions to change that as well.
    For the record: I got mongol DLC free of charge, might consider extra civs at $1-2 :p
    PS: for the record, movie tickets to 3D movies cost $6, normal movies around $2-3. Cheeseburger is $0.75, the amount I'm ready to pay for all DLCs for CIV5 and only because I love the game :D
     
  20. Frugal_Gourmet

    Frugal_Gourmet Chieftain

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    I bought the game, I purchased nearly all the DLCs, and I enjoyed myself despite some AI shortcomings.

    The value of the product -- including individual DLCs -- was completely worth the price for me.

    I am not an addict, and I play a reasonable amount of time whenever I feel like enjoying that form of entertainment.

    I would not have paid any price.

    I don't believe anything Firaxis or its affiliates are doing is malevolent or damaging to the future of gaming in any way.

    I possess a college degree, and I am a professional.

    Any more questions, feel free to ask.
     

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