What shall we do when Democracy is Discovered?

[Kev]

Well, we're only a few turns away from the government that this game is named after. Once we "discover" Democracy we'll need to decide what to do with our government situation.

In thinking about this, we have several options the way I see it.

Really, the main hurdle in going from Republic to Democracy is the happiness issue. With Mike's and Bach's, our republic is doing quite well with zero luxuries thank you. However, with the fact that EVERY trireme and caravel will give us grief and every unit that ventures forth will double that, we'd likely have to consider a luxury increase under a democracy.

That being said, Zero corruption and Zero bribing is nothing to sneeze at. Even with an increase in luxuries, the increases in other areas could easily keep the numbers in parity and then grow. Our trade will be better as well.

I understand that we have some "hot spots" in the world, and towns like dukeshire and Marl Downs will have their issues with unfriendlies. Our Senate will make things miserable as well, but here's my official, MOI thought:

Let us make the change at the first Oedo year after gunpowder.

Gunpowder will only take us 5 turns to achieve, and in 4 turns we'll have Leo's. With our defenses shored up, a democracy will not be as difficult to maintain.

Later, getting magnetism and having galleons will give us greater flexibility in troop movements, and we can look to be more aggressive if we wish. Women's Suffrage and the UN can then be key wonders to hit when we reach the industrial age.

So that's my thought. I'll post it as a poll if there are any objections.

 

[duke o' york]

I totally agree with your assessment. I want to be able to disband any troops that are felt to be extraneous once we get gunpowder though. Leo's should be built asap and then an Oedo switch made. I feel that we should be looking to disband phalanxes in our cities though. Each unit is 2 unhappy people. The more luxuries we have to put on to stave off unhappiness, the greater the cost in gold and research so as few troops as possible until we can capitalise fully on our tech lead.

 

[Kev]

I'd still like to keep the phalanxes - we can use some to defend new cities, but even if we do decided to disband some we'll get more shields out of them if we wait until they upgrade.

They'll only cause unhappiness if they're outside of the city. Of course, they cost shields to support, but that's true under our republic as well.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Agree with Kev. Let the units upgrade after getting Leo's and Gunpowder.

We can them redistribute the units as they are needed around the cities, or disband unnecessary ones at that point.

 

[Mr Spice]

Democray is the best government availible, IMO we should switch as soon as we can. Why wait until we have gunpowder? Of course we need to make sure we can get enough units into the cities within two turns, not to cause us falling into anarchy.

 

[Leowind]

The assumption here seems to be that we are not going on the offensive. If that is the case, then I agree to switch to Demo as soon as Oedo allows. If our desire with Leo's is to begin attacking either the Romans or the English, then the Senate problems and happiness issues with Demo will be very problematic. Personally, with a somewhat vague idea of our overall situation presently, I think I would prefer Kev's approach. swicth to Demo, get a huge tech/gold lead and develop like crazy. We still have some expansion room, don't we?

Also, when we revolt, you can "try out" all the available govt forms anytime until the end of that turn without penalty, so you can experiment with different govts and different luxury rates and see what effect they have on happines, etc.

 

[duke o' york]

The Oedo revolution seems to have gone really well so to Kev. I don't really understand what you meant by the last comment though Leo - are you suggesting that it is possible to change governments more than once in a single turn and have the effects of each without the penalties until the end of that turn? Surely, without the SoL, you'd just be in anarchy all the time, or are you allowed to select a government after anarchy and then change later that turn to another? For example you have a revolution, go through the anarchy and change to Fundy, capture those cities you've had your eye on for ages and then before ending the turn you change again to democracy and the senate won't be able to do anything about your evil deeds? That sounds rather cool!

 

[Zwelgje]

I only play Civ1 so this could not apply to the Civ2 demo game but anyway, this is what I do when I want to start a war in democracy. I press ctrl+R so that I go into anarchy, I attack my opponent and then the screen comes up which government type I want and I choose democracy. Only 1 turn of anarchy (I usually build Pyramids) and I have the war I want and still am in democracy.

 

[Leowind]

To our resident English spy, the duke O'York I had not thought of your tactic , but yes that is exactly what I am saying. When you revolt, get through the anarchy, and choose a government, any time before that turn is over you can revolt again and immediately choose a new govt. I have always used this trick to test out which gov't will give me the best deal, or even to see if I'm ready to switch or need to stay where I am. You can see what sci/tax/lux rates will look like, what happiness issues will look like, etc. with no intervening anarchy. You suggestion of using it to e.g. make an attack then switch back to Demo had not occured to me, but should work. I will be anxious to try that out.

 

[Kev]

There didn't really seem to be a need to check, though you are all correct in saying that one can "check" governments to see which will be best. This has actually come in handy as at times when I revolt and I'm given the anarchy message for city after city. I keep hitting return, but then I realize I hit return when asked for a new government and I find myself in a despotism!! I can then just hit revolt again and I immediately can choose another government.

And those 1-day anarchy revolts can be nice when there is a Senate that keeps getting involved with things.

 

[Ren]

Well what wonders are we building at the moment? Could it be worth our while to change to Statue Of Liberty? As the military advisor, I must put emphasis on the importance of gaining Leo's, but the statue has helped me a lot in games of Civ 2 that I have played, soooo.....(Of course, myself is a Communist, so I am hoping I can convince you to change to Communism if we get the Statue ) There should be plenty caravans lying around, am I right?

 

[duke o' york]

We already have Leo's and the only other military wonder left is erm, Manhattan ! I suppose you could consider Suffrage a military wonder as it aids war in a democracy but it's not that much of one. With our knowledge of Oedo years then we don't really need the Statue but it would mean preplanning our revolutions.