What shall we research next?

What would you like to see done?


  • Total voters
    258
I pick option #7. IMO, you could help the delevopment teams of both RFC Europe and RFC Antiquity. I don't mean that you should take charge of both projects, but I'm quite sure that you have some good tips and ideas they both could use.
 
other: I would keep on focusing on RAND to improve it (map generation and civ placement, UHV balance for the various options, and more). RAND has a much higher potential IMO.
 
#1: Because development of new concepts will have a significant benefit outside RFC, not only including Rand/Europe/Antiquity, but also other mods.
 
I pick option #7. IMO, you could help the delevopment teams of both RFC Europe and RFC Antiquity. I don't mean that you should take charge of both projects, but I'm quite sure that you have some good tips and ideas they both could use.

Research liberalism and get a free tech/mod.:lol:
 
In an civ2 extension it was possible to play as atlantis, dinosaurs(very fun!). It could be cool to do this but the graphical work is too enormous i think.
I said continue to improved rhye's and fall because i'm sure this mod has a lot of possibilities.
 
A later start is something I've always wanted- while some variation is good, I've always felt it was unfortunate you could never really play out to the modern era with a relatively strong historical backing. 1700AD scenarios would open up some new potential for modern civs.
 
I voted 1700 AD and just wanted to suggest that you move the starting date a little earlier and encompass the beginning of colonization. I always find the most exciting part of RFC to be this time, whether I'm playing a european civ or not. Competing for the lush new world with other well developed civilizations is very engaging, and bound to yield dynamic results from game to game.

Perhaps the corporation system could be revitalized. Instead of having both Mining inc and creative construction doing more or less the same thing, one could be changed to Spices, bananas, sugar, dyes, and cotton (or something to that effect) yielding Population growth (food) and commerce (yes raw commerce, not wealth) in member cities. This corporation would also be changed so that the HQ's bonus was lessened, the maintenence penalties lessened as well, and a method of acquiring a corporate executive of another nation's civilization would be implemented (maybe buying one through diplomacy or the corporation menu). Corporations would shift from being an incentive for resource gathering in the late game for the single civ that happens to build it, to being a mechanism creating fierce competition between nations over scarce resources in specific geographic locations at historically appropriate times.

The end result would be an age of growing colonial empires that become to large to survive and collapse. This could feed into a vibrant modern age.
 
Thadian said:
"So that every civ which may be squatted upon would be doomed to obscurity and collapse?"

no - but you know more about coding than i ever will. so i will let you refute me, as you often do

I believe that like with RFC Rand, your capital should be given a "Capital Area", much like your core area. so what happens you ask, when the vikings take themselves over to London and settle?

1. England, naturally, would be forced into ireland, where it would be given a new core area. It would declare on the vikings with the goal of "reclaiming the homeland." It will be treated as though the vikings DOW'd the newly spawned "Irish", who would begin receiving units from the vikings. this will continue naturally, and there would be an unhappiness penalty of these brito/viking citizens. they will know they are being held by foreign powers.

ok, that sucks i admit it. truth is, i don't really have a response for you - because there is no right answer.

however there needs to be more leniency in how squatting should work.
if im greece, and i want Byzantium as my capital, why should i suffer?
if im babylon and i choose to migrate to ukraine before settling, why should i suffer? if im japan and i settle some pacific islands instead of japan, why should i suffer?

i don't want the typical squatting debate because im not trying to defend my views, only to give Rhye feedback on what i think should be done - and i think squatting should be permitted to an extent. with a capital zone, in a squatted game, many civ's may wind up displaced - but still playable countries who are capable of performing as well as they already do.

so outside of capital spawn zones - i can only suggest that each country can settle any of its historical area without penalty. if germany squats out netherlands, then netherlands should spawn in another one of its historical locations, maybe austrailia - the pacific islands, south africa, brazil etc.
AnotherPacifist said:
Actually, thadian's idea is kinda novel. What if the Dutch were Boers rather than true Dutch (if there is such a thing)--impossible historically but still interesting? What if the Angles and Saxons were wiped out completely by the Vikings and "England" became Norse? (Then we will still have Celtic Ireland if the Vikings didn't kill them too). The Romans were latecomers in the grand scheme of things (Etruscans, Greeks and Phoenicians were there first) so maybe they would have been based out of Medliolanum instead of Rome.
More interestingly, where would the Japanese and "barbarian" tribes represented by Khmer spawn if the Middle Kingdom expanded really rapidly? Okinawa? Philippines? Australia?
Colonization was a function of activity in the center of empires, but it took place in the periphery - and often in spite of central power, not because of it.

So in the Boer example above, Germany controls the Netherlands and is unsympathetic to certain economic and cultural interests of the Dutch. So the Dutch migrates to southern Africa in huge numbers and Voila! The Dutch civilization is born in South Africa, possibly as a vassal of Germany.
How would a UHV play out then? And would the Dutch reclaim Amsterdam in a Congress? Or in a flip if Germany collapses?

I think this concept is very intriguing and would make for a dynamic play experience that RFC could use a little bit more of.
 
So in the Boer example above, Germany controls the Netherlands and is unsympathetic to certain economic and cultural interests of the Dutch. So the Dutch migrates to southern Africa in huge numbers and Voila! The Dutch civilization is born in South Africa, possibly as a vassal of Germany.

And what does that has to do with squatting?
 
Perhaps the corporation system could be revitalized. Instead of having both Mining inc and creative construction doing more or less the same thing, one could be changed to Spices, bananas, sugar, dyes, and cotton (or something to that effect) yielding Population growth (food) and commerce (yes raw commerce, not wealth) in member cities. This corporation would also be changed so that the HQ's bonus was lessened, the maintenence penalties lessened as well, and a method of acquiring a corporate executive of another nation's civilization would be implemented (maybe buying one through diplomacy or the corporation menu).

While I like the idea of early corporations such as the India Company, I don't think they should provide commerce or food, and especially the first since commerce is a raw value that can be converted to science and espionage, and I doubt bananas and sugar should help with that. Also, such early corporations didn't function like modern ones, which are the ones implemented. So I think these (East and West India Company) could be national wonders (unlike modern corps) that would provide a city with a corporation a random resource between sugar or cotton (or corn), and spices or silk (or rice) for West and East India Company respectively; in trade for another resource the city has access to, much like Standard Ethanol and Aluminium Co.

In a 1700 ad game, the sioux and the zulus can be included! no?

yeah, as indipendent natives !
 
Personally, I like the idea of giving the civs new UHV's. It will change the game up for anyone who has completed all the civs, and give people who can't seem to win with a certain civ another go, in a different and new way. For example, I have played Germany several times (granted, on Viceroy, because I suck at Civ4 otherwise); wouldn't it be interesting to have a different goal to accomplish--say, build x number of extra-continental cities, to reflect the expanision that Germany sought in Africa and East/Southeast Asia, but never fully accomplished?
 
And what does that has to do with squatting?
I don't know, why do you ask me?

I just wanted to say that I like the idea of civilizations being able to spawn at other places than they did historically.
I realize the concept wouldn't fit in very well with pre-exploration ages, but it certainly would for later periods. So maybe it should be called Rhye's and Fall of Nations with a starting date of 1500AD or 1600AD.
The first phase would then be exploration and colonialization by established powers, the second phase the rise of competing nationalisms in colonized areas.

Who knows, maybe the USA would end up in Africa or South America to challenge the established powers?
Or maybe the Chinese pursued a more expansionist policy in Africa and ended up spawning a rival chinese culture there?
 
Or maybe the Chinese pursued a more expansionist policy in Africa and ended up spawning a rival chinese culture there?

I've seen an exceptionally strong India control the African East Coast in RFC.

I don't know, why do you ask me?

Have you read the thread? The idea of Dutch spawning in South Africa was s justification to allow Germany to squat on Netherlands.
 
yeah, as indipendent natives !

if they get a city i will be happy to see them as an independent natives force. the zulu problem has been addressed by people such as you and lone wolf who point out that the AI might not be able to hold south africa assets - or be too afraid to settle it.

but for america, to have natives to stop the french from breaking into the great plains (which doesn't flip to america spawn) and to give america a little bit of competition would be a nice addition. of course i would rather them be playable civ's.


but to have them as an actual indy force led by ONE city - would at least show that they are present there. that america - france and other colonists had to deal with them as a threat.


edit: even without a city, to have them as indy natives gives more dignity to native americans than to just say "they are stupid barbarians".
 
While I like the idea of early corporations such as the India Company, I don't think they should provide commerce or food, and especially the first since commerce is a raw value that can be converted to science and espionage, and I doubt bananas and sugar should help with that. Also, such early corporations didn't function like modern ones, which are the ones implemented. So I think these (East and West India Company) could be national wonders (unlike modern corps) that would provide a city with a corporation a random resource between sugar or cotton (or corn), and spices or silk (or rice) for West and East India Company respectively; in trade for another resource the city has access to, much like Standard Ethanol and Aluminium Co.

I would agree with you that early corporations don't act as modern ones do. Certainly in the current incarnation of Civ 4 a trading company as a wonder makes more historical sense. However, I am in fact seeking a different sort of historical accuracy. I feel the greatest weakness in RFC's current representation of colonization is that (besides the occasional UHV) there is no incentive to attempt to build a vast colonial empire. Resources such as spices and cotton that once drove world history ("No, you dare not to make war on cotton. No power on the earth dares to make war upon it. Cotton is King.") are resources that are almost ignored by the prudent player. You need one for yourself, for a minor bonus, and maybe another to trade, if you're lucky enough to swing something you actually need from another power. Imagine using privateers to blockade Caribbean ports and getting access to the exporting resource. Imagine conquering the Incans and not being tempted to raze the cities because they're surrounded by mountains. Imagine conquering India and feeling that cities surrounded by jungle were still worth controlling for their resource wealth. Colonial powers were gluttonous in their pursuit of resources, they were not content with just one source and my suggested mechanism is just one way of implementing such motives into the game. There is probably a better, more historically accurate way to do it, but given the minimalist approach to RFC, the current corporation system seems the way to do it. I would change the corporations as such, assuming a starting date in 1500-1700:

Rare Metals inc: gold, silver, gems, etc. Leads to pure wealth. Available from the beginning of the game.
Luxuries inc: Spices, Tea, Silk, Sugar, fur, etc. Leads to pure wealth. Available from the beginning of the game.
Mining Inc: Iron, Copper, Coal, etc. Works more or less how it does now.
Textiles Inc: Cotton, dyes, wool, etc. Leads to production. Available with replaceable parts.
Foodstuffs inc (rework of Sid's Sushi): Wheat, corn, fish, bananas, sugar, pigs, cow, etc. (basically any edible resource). Leads to pure food. Available with refrigeration. This is how we can create the population explosion of the modern age.
Energy inc: Oil, Coal, Uranium. Lead to... man you could go anywhere with this one, let's just say raw commerce, maybe production too? Becomes available with Combustion. This is the big daddy corp at the end of the game that justifies your megalomaniac invasion of the mid-east, or... Norway? :lol:.
Ethanol inc. As it is
Aluminum inc. As it is

The corporation system would need to be overhauled. Each HQ would be a wonder of sorts with a commercial benefit, but it wouldn't be a monopoly as it is now. By being the first to found mining inc. you don't establish a monopoly on the ability to turn iron and coal into production, nor are you able to profit every time anyone else anywhere else in the world does it (as the 5g per city would suggest). Every civ with the necessary technology would have access to the appropriate corporation, albeit at a cost, be it diplomatic or financial. The bonus food, production, wealth, or commerce (and probably some token culture) that would be generated would be evenly divided amongst incorporated cities. Instead of using corporations to increase every little colony's productive, growth, and economic ability (as it works now) you would want to keep your corporations at your empire's core, giving your biggest and best developed cities an edge. The occasional colony could be jump started by a corporation, but it's a strategy that would weaken the more it's used. There would still be a maintenance cost associated with corporations, but it would be much reduced as dividing the effect between cities decreases the need for an external limiting factor. You still have your stability pulling you to keep your empire small and manageable, but there's that incentive to bite off more than you can chew.

So how would this work? Let's say you start as France with no colonies. Just the normal Paris, Lyon, and Bordeaux. You don't have access to significant quantities of rare metals or luxuries so it doesn't warrant buying one such executive. However, you've started mapping the new world and you have managed to colonize the southern United States and you realize you've just discovered replaceable parts. It becomes clear that with your colonial access to vast quantities of cotton, and your dyes and wool at home (let's say you've got a city, or whatever you need for resources access in this new mod, on the sheep on Corsica) that it would behoove you to utilize the Textiles inc. corporation. The nasty Germans beat you to the tech and the great person, so you're forced to go to the corporation menu and fork over some hard earned cash for a few executives, but the (making the numbers up here) 24 hammers that your 6 resources will net you make it worthwhile. You drop your first executive in Paris. At this instant Paris is receiving all 24 corporate hammers that your nation is entitled to, plus (let's say) 3 just from the corporation being there. But Paris isn't your only productive center. Both Lyon and Bordeaux are well developed with production buildings. So you drop a couple more executives there, and now you have 24 divided 3 ways, yielding 8 in each city, plus the 3 from just the corporation itself. So that's 11 total in each city. Time goes by and New Orleans has been developing. It's also maxed it's production buildings and you decide to buy another executive (damn Germans), ship it over to New Orleans, and pop it in there. Now you have 9 bonus hammers in each of the four incorporated cities. This is good stuff, it's really helping you maintain your war machine in your war with the Germans, and you decide it would be advantageous to settle the sheep over on Australia, or conquer the newly independent city of Mecca (who's gonna stop ya?). You do both and now you have 40 hammers to divide evenly amongst your corporate cities, which are each receiving a total of 13 (10 + 3) from the corporation's presence in each city.

So how do I justify all this historically? The corporations across an empire represents that empire's ability to direct and utilize its resources efficiently, and in what direction the resources flow. It allows the player to designate an economic core area which will recreate the structure of a colonial empire. Most importantly, it will be a mechanism that helps create the titanic clashes between colonial empires that dominated history from the 16th century all the way to the beginning of the 20th century.
 
Personally, I like the idea of giving the civs new UHV's. It will change the game up for anyone who has completed all the civs, and give people who can't seem to win with a certain civ another go, in a different and new way. For example, I have played Germany several times (granted, on Viceroy, because I suck at Civ4 otherwise); wouldn't it be interesting to have a different goal to accomplish--say, build x number of extra-continental cities, to reflect the expanision that Germany sought in Africa and East/Southeast Asia, but never fully accomplished?

I think this should be an optional add-in if made at all. There are those of us who haven't had a chance to play all (or even most) of the civs. For example, I have very little time to actually play civ between modding and real life. I've only played Rome, Babylon, Japan, and France (the last two on 1.181 or below, so I want to replay them in the future).
 
I think that, most likely the easiest, way to make colonization worth while is to make the resources in those areas better. That is that in southeast South America there would be, as a bad example, South American gold. However gold anywhere that was less, on a historical standpoint for gold, important would have the bonuses of regular gold.
 
Top Bottom