The Forbidden Palace. It could double our war production overnight, if the second capital is carefully placed.
The location is a matter for another discussion though.
The location is a matter for another discussion though.
What should we do with our New Leader
- Thread starter Falcon02
- Start date
By request, I have changed a vote from Wonder, to Army of Immortals.
Justus II
General Staff
I vote Army of Immortals, for a couple of reasons.
First, as has been mentioned, getting that first army and a victory allows the building of Heroic Epic, which leads to more leaders, and is actually higher culture than Hanging Gardens, IIRC. It will also later allow the military academy.
Second, an Army of immortals is worth more than just a stack, for several reasons. The one vulnerability of Immortals is the lower defense, but an Army allows them to defend in turn, making it much harder to kill. In fact, the AI rarely attacks armies at all, in my experience. On the offense, an Army is a great city attacker. It often takes 2-3 attacks to kill off the first defender in a city. This costs a couple of units, and in the process the defender can get promoted 1-2 times, making them even stronger. The Army in effect allows 3 units to attack in sequence, and as long as the third one wins, all three units survive. As important, the defender does not get promoted in between!
This is especially true with the immortals. As our opponents get pikemen, the immortals will have less of an advantage, with defensive bonus it will probably not even be 50% chance against a city, but with an army, the extra hit points means it can still usually take out that first unit. The AI then tends to have only a spearman as the second defender, they are not as thorough with their upgrades.
Third, Armies make great garrisons when taking a city. I have often taken a city with my 3rd or 4th attacking unit, but since the others already moved(attacked) first, they cannot move into the city to supress the resistors. An Army that takes out the last defender, however, moves in with all three units, and it seems to supress the resistors pretty quickly. (I remember some debate some time back about whether the army counts as one unit, or three, or four, or just what, I know it counts as 4 for sea transport, and all the component units show up at the bottom of the city screen, in my experience it does quell the resistance quickly).
The Army should definitely be all immortals, I am not sure what the advantage of putting a spearman in the army would be, immortals already have a defense of 2.
If we do decide to go for a wonder, I would go along with Hanging Gardens, to use the leader quick and open the slot for another one. I think it is much to early to build the Forbidden Palace, and the American cities are probably too close anyway. If it is our destiny to expand throughout the continent, we will have a much bigger empire than we do now. But this is all the more reason for an ARMY, so our historians can write their great Heroic Epic, and inspire future leaders to come forth and answer the call!
Let them build our wonders!!
First, as has been mentioned, getting that first army and a victory allows the building of Heroic Epic, which leads to more leaders, and is actually higher culture than Hanging Gardens, IIRC. It will also later allow the military academy.
Second, an Army of immortals is worth more than just a stack, for several reasons. The one vulnerability of Immortals is the lower defense, but an Army allows them to defend in turn, making it much harder to kill. In fact, the AI rarely attacks armies at all, in my experience. On the offense, an Army is a great city attacker. It often takes 2-3 attacks to kill off the first defender in a city. This costs a couple of units, and in the process the defender can get promoted 1-2 times, making them even stronger. The Army in effect allows 3 units to attack in sequence, and as long as the third one wins, all three units survive. As important, the defender does not get promoted in between!
This is especially true with the immortals. As our opponents get pikemen, the immortals will have less of an advantage, with defensive bonus it will probably not even be 50% chance against a city, but with an army, the extra hit points means it can still usually take out that first unit. The AI then tends to have only a spearman as the second defender, they are not as thorough with their upgrades.
Third, Armies make great garrisons when taking a city. I have often taken a city with my 3rd or 4th attacking unit, but since the others already moved(attacked) first, they cannot move into the city to supress the resistors. An Army that takes out the last defender, however, moves in with all three units, and it seems to supress the resistors pretty quickly. (I remember some debate some time back about whether the army counts as one unit, or three, or four, or just what, I know it counts as 4 for sea transport, and all the component units show up at the bottom of the city screen, in my experience it does quell the resistance quickly).
The Army should definitely be all immortals, I am not sure what the advantage of putting a spearman in the army would be, immortals already have a defense of 2.
If we do decide to go for a wonder, I would go along with Hanging Gardens, to use the leader quick and open the slot for another one. I think it is much to early to build the Forbidden Palace, and the American cities are probably too close anyway. If it is our destiny to expand throughout the continent, we will have a much bigger empire than we do now. But this is all the more reason for an ARMY, so our historians can write their great Heroic Epic, and inspire future leaders to come forth and answer the call!
Let them build our wonders!!
Shabbaman
rebuffing the rebels
Obviously I like the idea of the Hanging Gardens in PDX. On the other hand, if we'd acquire a victorious army, we can write the Heroic Epic, which has a high culture rating too.
Combine this with the following facts:
1. What's the Hanging Gardens actually good for? I'd like Sun Tzu (in PDX) a lot better...
2. When we'd be waiting, there will be no new leaders...
3. We plan on waging a beaucoup war, so that makes beaucoup de chance at emerging new leaders (combined with the Heroic Epic...)
4. On what Justus the second mentioned...he's right (this guy should move to PDX, the place where all nice people live...)
Salutations!
Combine this with the following facts:
1. What's the Hanging Gardens actually good for? I'd like Sun Tzu (in PDX) a lot better...
2. When we'd be waiting, there will be no new leaders...
3. We plan on waging a beaucoup war, so that makes beaucoup de chance at emerging new leaders (combined with the Heroic Epic...)
4. On what Justus the second mentioned...he's right (this guy should move to PDX, the place where all nice people live...)
Salutations!
My vote, without doubt, is for an army of immortals. The military advantage of one army may not be extraordinary, but it is there. We would essentially be able to assault and destroy the strongest defender in any given city with only a small chance of failure. The AI will have pikemen soon, though they will not upgrade very quickly, so once we destroy the first pike, we will be fighting spearmen with our immortals, and will again have an advantage.
The first victory of our army will allow the construction of three small wonders. The Heroic epic has a high culture value, and will significantly increase our chances of generating more leaders. The military academy will give us a distinct advantage, as, while one army may have only a small effect on a war, the presence of 3 or 4 armies will have a very great impact on any war we fight. The pentagon will increase this advantage, making our armies nearly invincible, if they are constructed of the right units.
The first victory of our army will allow the construction of three small wonders. The Heroic epic has a high culture value, and will significantly increase our chances of generating more leaders. The military academy will give us a distinct advantage, as, while one army may have only a small effect on a war, the presence of 3 or 4 armies will have a very great impact on any war we fight. The pentagon will increase this advantage, making our armies nearly invincible, if they are constructed of the right units.
Charis
Realms Beyond
Spot on, Mr Vice President.
Immortal Army all the way.
May the army always travel with a vet spearman by his side.
General Charis
Immortal Army all the way.
May the army always travel with a vet spearman by his side.
General Charis
donsig
Low level intermediary
Three quick points:
A victorious army now will only allow us to build one small wonder now. The other two (military academy and pentagon) are far down the road and there is plenty of time...
The hanging gardens does more than increase our culture, it makes one unhappy citizen content in all our cities. This becomes more important as our cities grow. The gardens may well mean one less mp in each city which in turn would allow one more unit/city in the field fighting our enemies.
While a forbidden palace farther away looks nice down the road, one in America now could help us make enough immortals now to bring our enemies to their knees.
A victorious army now will only allow us to build one small wonder now. The other two (military academy and pentagon) are far down the road and there is plenty of time...
The hanging gardens does more than increase our culture, it makes one unhappy citizen content in all our cities. This becomes more important as our cities grow. The gardens may well mean one less mp in each city which in turn would allow one more unit/city in the field fighting our enemies.
While a forbidden palace farther away looks nice down the road, one in America now could help us make enough immortals now to bring our enemies to their knees.
The Hanging gardens unfortunately expire at the beginning of the industrial age. Also, we have access to three luxuries, which is generally enough to keep cities happy up through size 12, with a 10 % luxury rate in republic or with military police in monarchy.
The forbidden palace is not that expensive to build, and the American territory is not so far from our capital that those cities will be completely unproductive. I would only use a leader if our empire was sprawling due to a massive war of conquest.
SKILORD
Insurgent
Forbidden palace is not that big of a priority that we shoud use a leader on it. yes it could be useful but still it's only a small wonder, we aren't racing against anyone else to build it.
an Army of Immortals isn't a bad idea at all but we'd have to use it quickly before the age of pikemen
so as to get our heroic epic.
However i must agree overall with waiting to rush the construction of a Middle ages wonder (Leo's or Sun Tzu's) especially if the wonder was placed in.... say, Greater Cormyr.
j/k put it wherever you want.
an Army of Immortals isn't a bad idea at all but we'd have to use it quickly before the age of pikemen
so as to get our heroic epic.However i must agree overall with waiting to rush the construction of a Middle ages wonder (Leo's or Sun Tzu's) especially if the wonder was placed in.... say, Greater Cormyr.
j/k put it wherever you want.
donsig
Low level intermediary
It is if you're building it one shield at a time and that of course is where it would be most useful! I haven't looked at the production in our new conquests so I'm not so sure how much an instant FP would help...
...and it looks as though the poll is leading towards an army anyway.
PDX is about 50% wasteful, without a courthouse. It would be a good candidate for a forbidden palace, as its position would be good for the entire empire as it currently stands, leaving us free to move the palace further south at some point in the future should we decide to conquer a lot more territory.
There do not seem to be too many votes outstanding, so this poll should be valid when the turn starts tonight.
russia1292000
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2002
- Messages
- 55
The war is almost over. We are at the break of peace from all but the weakest nations. All that is left to do in the war is to mop up the last American and Ejuption citiies. We should use the leader for the forbiddenn palace to spead up prodution in our New American war torn cities.
marshalljames
XXX
Use the leader to rush build the forbidden gardens in Washington when we take it.
marshalljames
XXX
oops...Forbidden Palace.....and In New York ie large city far from capital
donsig
Low level intermediary
The leader was used to make an army which has since gone on to win great victories for Phoenatica!
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