What Small Civs would you like to see in DoC

[Bautos42]

Totally support that map.
My only big issue is Corsica being adjacent to Italy.

I agree, but I figured it's better like that than not having Corsica at all or moving it to a weird location. Furthermore, there are other cases of islands beimg adjected to land: Japan, Sicily, Denmark and in the current map Hainan (in China). Gameplaywise it is even better that way, as the Ai can easily improve Corsica that way.

 

[Malchar]

Is that map able to be downloaded somewhere? I'd be willing to do some work on it.

 

[Bautos42]

Currently no, but I might upload it if people are interested. Unfortunately, I'd have to covert the map first to a format compatible with DOC. As I've stated before, I've added some additional resources as well as a second feature variety for (polar) islands. Anyways, the map itself is basically finished (although I'm still tweaking minor details), the main reason I have not released it is that the map is not yet fully integrated within the game mechanics of DOC. I'll start a new thread in order not to hijack this one.

 

[Leoreth]

@Leoreth, Well normally you encourage discussion and ideas, and you've literally said if we want to convince you of something, you expect us to provide you with arguments. I was trying to be constructive, nuanced, and objective. I made some observations and asked some questions, I wasn't even expecting everyone to agree with everything, but perhaps something good could come out of that. Moreover, there is no need to shun discussion (nor to provide counterarguments if you don't feel like it), at the end of the day, this is your game and all decisions remain yours.

I did not want to quell discussion, but I have thought a lot already about what kind of game I want the mod to be and what kind of map would facilitate that. I am reading posts like yours, but at the same time I want to make it clear that this is basically a decision I have already made and if your main goal is to affect change in how the mod is going to be, you should not expect success. We could work this out in a long series of posts where I describe my rationale, where our goals differ and what the best way to achieve them would be. But I don't really want to spend time on that right now, when I could also work on the mod itself during that time.

And, to be clear, my proposal at the end was not against any of the requirements you brought up. The thought experiment was to keep all enlarged areas enlarged as they are and use the additional space (when enlarging 1.5x) for other areas, I was asking what would be a priority then. I've tried this before out of curiosity in excel, and Europe and Japan remain disproportionately oversized anyway.

When I said enlarged, I meant in proportion to everything else. Scaling the current map up by 75% (1.5 * 1.5) would also require these regions to be scaled up accordingly.

I've actually worked on a map meeting these requirements and implementing the map into DOC.

I don't know how to express how happy it makes me to see this. Your map is basically what I had in mind, but actively dreaded to actually have to construct one day. I'm sure you spent a lot of time on this, and I'm glad I don't have to anymore. I have minor quibbles with the shape of several geographic region, but overall this is exactly what I would have attempted to create (and I don't even know if I would have been so successful). I had a couple of reasons for wanting a larger map and I immediately looked if your map satisfies them, and it does in all cases. This is great, because it also shows that some of the limitations of the RFC map can be overcome with a modest size increase, without going all GEM.

This whole discussion about redoing the map came a bit unexpected (this is still the small civs thread after all), and I had originally intended to keep the cards close to my chest on that topic just to make sure there would be no wrong impressions on how likely it is to be implemented soon. However, finding out how far you already are changes a lot of that. Honestly I don't even know how this affects my mid term plans but "new map" just went from VERY LOW to at least low priority.

It currently also features three additional resources I missed in the main mod (cocoa, potatoes (both historically important) and olives (creating additional variety for the food resources in the Mediterranean area), but these could easily be removed.

I agree, I actually would have added these resources if not for lack of space for them. Another one I'd love to include is Rubber.

 

[Ecthy]

What I like most about that map is:

1) it allwos for a more nuanced central European geography. Out of Berlin, Gdansk, Königsberg, and the like, several cities can now be on the map at a time, allowing for some Prussian-Polish competition, as opposed to the map we have so far.

2) Judea / Israel can have two cities, like Jerusalem and Haifa for example. Very nice.

3) Finally let's make a DLC-minimod with two iterations of the Korean civ and some neat UHV goals for North Korea!

 

[need my speed]

why do you bring up this quote, "Words that have the power to both destroy and heal", over there?

To reduce the size of the quote. But only putting in 'words' or such sounds dismissive.

 

[1SDANi]

Finally let's make a DLC-minimod with two iterations of the Korean civ and some neat UHV goals for North Korea!

North Korea was the world leader in submarines in 2014, according to http://www.businessinsider.com/35-most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-2014-7

Not sure if it still is, but it may be an interesting UHV. Also if we're up for adding UHVs near the end of the game, maybe build at least one ICBM before 2020.

Not sure what the third would be, these two UHV ideas are just from things I've heard about NK whilst living a life of mostly ignoring them.

 

[need my speed]

Achieving world conquest Getting the game to finally show a map in line with reality, of course.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I've actually worked on a map meeting these requirements and implementing the map into DOC. Sadly, I've lately made no progress as I'm quite occupied otherwise, although I plan to resume work on it in one or two months. The map is actually already playable (including spawn areas, barbarians and resource spawns), but as I have not found the time to do the stability maps and CNM, it tends to get weird.

I'd recommend you to make a new thread about that map, as it has hijacked the subject of this discussion.


So, back to the subject, if by "small" you mean one or two cities gameplay-wise, I'd choose the following:
-Belgium (but there's no space).
-Burma.
-Hungary.
-The Papal States.
-Scotland.
-Vietnam.

 

[1SDANi]

I'd recommend you to make a new thread about that map, as it has hijacked the subject of this discussion.


So, back to the subject, if by "small" you mean one or two cities gameplay-wise, I'd choose the following:
-Belgium (but there's no space).
-Burma.
-Hungary.
-The Papal States.
-Scotland.
-Vietnam.

He did make a new thread for the map.

Also, the following isn't just directed at you but everyone.

Could this please not just be a wishlist thread. I would like it if we could have some actual discussion. What would be the UHV, when would they spawn, what would lead to their downfall if they have one, etc.

 

[The Green One]

Maybe Belgium could possibly come to fruition of both Netherlands and France are unstable? Basically Holland collapses and becomes Brussels, with the possibility to colonise the Congo. Their UHV could be based around being European capital, ie have Friendly relations with all European Civs or build the UN (to symbolise the EU?).

Scotland could have to make the Darien territory succeed

 

[1SDANi]

Maybe Belgium could possibly come to fruition of both Netherlands and France are unstable? Basically Holland collapses and becomes Brussels, with the possibility to colonise the Congo. Their UHV could be based around being European capital, ie have Friendly relations with all European Civs or build the UN (to symbolise the EU?).

Scotland could have to make the Darien territory succeed

Honestly I feel like the EU is such a major regional attribute that it should be it's own thing.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Honestly I feel like the EU is such a major regional attribute that it should be it's own thing.

Hmmmm... perhaps we could take a page from Fall From Heaven II and implement several competing "pacts" or "union" via civics? In Fall From Heaven II there is one civic category where you can choose whether you join the Overcouncil, the Undercouncil or neither, which are basically like the AP or UNO. Anyone up for a European Union civic?

 

[Royal Tenenbaum]

That map is BEAUTIFUL

 

[star15389]

I think NATO vs Warsaw Pact would be a more important and logical hard-coded alliance than the European Union

 

[1SDANi]

I think NATO vs Warsaw Pact would be a more important and logical hard-coded alliance than the European Union

NATO and WP definitely need representation, though I feel EU would be important to keeping EU NATO nations unified after the Berlin Fall.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I'll be more specific with mine, at least in those cases where I had some imagination:

-Belgium (1830)
UP: Not sure about the name, but I think of something that enhances river tiles and lets ships sail on them.
UU: I don't remember the name, but I think of the Belgian UU in the Civ5 Scramble for Africa scenario.
UHV:
-Control or vassalize at least 5 cities in Congo by 1900 AD.
-Have good relations with five European nations.
-Found the United Nations.

-Burma (850).
UHV:
-Make Pagan the most cultured city in the world in 1300 AD.
-Control all of Indochina in 1600 AD.
-Defeat at least 10 European units by 1900 AD.

-Hungary (1000 AD).
UP: Nomad Heritage: Mounted units +25% defense.
UU: Huszar (Cuirassier, available earlier, higher withdrawal chance)
UB: Vegvar (Castle, doesn't require walls, higher production for mounted units)
UHV:
-Control Central Europe by 1100 AD.
-Be the strongest European civ in 1500 AD.
-Do not lose a single city before 1700 AD.

-The Papal States (750 AD).
UP: The Pope: Receive twice the benefits for every resolution at the Apostolic Palace.
UU: Swiss Mercenary (+50% City Defense).
UB: Basilica (Monument, +2 XP per religious building).
UHV:
-Control Italy and Jerusalem in 1300 AD.
-Allow no Muslim civs in Europe in 1600.
-Make sure there is more Catholic population than Protestant, Jewish, and Orthodox combined.

-Scotland (843 AD):
UP: Highlands: No terrain movement cost for Forests or Hills.
UU: Gallowglass (Heavy Swordsman) or Highlander (Arquebusier) (Higher attack on hills and forests)
UHV:
-Earn a Great General by 1300 AD.
-Conquer England and Ireland by 1400 AD.
-Settle Nova Scotia and Panama by 1600 AD.

 

[Leoreth]

Belgium had an important role in the Industrial Revolution, it was the first country to industrialise after Great Britain. I think that should be reflected. Scotland's goals should reflect its role in the Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment.

 

[star15389]

Papal States and Burma seem way too easy to me