What the best unit to take on archers?

Rirse

Warlord
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
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117
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
Okay I am veteran of Civilization 3, but I am having differculty killing the archer units in CIV4. Their first strike messes up any unit I send in, and if I use a archer, they switch to a unit who strong against them.
 
I have found it is worth waiting until I have catapult if I want to take a city. First I bombard to lower city defense, then I attack and even though I normally lose the pults, they weaken all the units and make it that much easier for my other attackers. Also, having barracks and/or civics so you can give your units an upgrade or two when they are built makes a huge difference. Just be sure you attack before the archers become longbowmen because those guys are a pain.
 
Build barracks and give your units +% vs archer upgrades. Or just win by numbers.
 
So far the win by numbers have worked, as I took two of Mali's cities away from them. The first time I used a couple of Inca's unique units, who are purpopse to be strong against the archers (which sadly they have a unique archer). I lost the battles, but they were all down to one, so I had some horse archers and catapults (which bombed the city prior to the fight) finish off the rest of the units.
 
The Cover upgrade is great against archers. I can't remember exactly which units get that upgrade though. The manual just says "Melee and Gunpowder units" but I seem to remember longbowmen having the Cover upgrade as well.

I remember my worst battle was with a city on a hill, with a river surrounding it like a moat. I can't remember all the attack bonuses (or minuses in this case) but it came out to almost -100 even after I took down the city's defenses with a catapult. After the cat bombard is done, used them to attack to weaken the units (upgraded the collateral damage). The only melee unit that could take out one of the archers completely seemed to be the macemen and longbowmen which I had just upgraded to. Otherwise I was on them 3-1 and had to just keep whittling them down.

The lesson? Build your cities on hills if you can. They give you a HUGE defence bonus. With archers upgraded to city defence it's insane.
 
Certain units are also immune to first strike - like knights (?) - so unless the archers are sitting behind city walls with a nice city defense bonus, or standing on top of a hill, Knights can be quite effective.
 
Mounted units are usually immune to first strikes, so they're the counter to archery units (I think).

When I go for cities I usually take combined arms including siege (if I can, and it varies, like you don't need a full army to take out junk cities with no defense bonus).

If you select a unit and hold down ALT while mousing over an adjacent enemy it'll show your odds of victory, which can determine whether you'll win or lose.

If you mouse over the flag for a city you're fighting it'll show you an expanded list of each unit in the city along with a summary of their bonuses, which is also handy for figuring out how to counter em.
 
Or use swordsmen + city raider,should be a bit more even. Add in a catapult and those archers shouldn't do too well.

Archer + archer city defense bonus + city garrison = approx 5.1 (not counting walls/culture def/terrain)

Swordsman + city raider + city attack bonus = approx 7.2

Assuming I am not mistaken. I'm not entirely sure how to factor in first strike.
 
Following along with Xeos suggestion, Axe men will also do in number if you've only got copper. I'd bring double however many defenders you expect to see. The point here is that you will die as the archer has the advantage but at the beginning it should be close to even odds, but when you advance the enemy units you will lose if you do not defeat them when weakened.
 
It does not seem that swords and macemen have all that much trouble with archers. Anyway any unit with the first strike with fare better.

If you have a barracks and some traits (read civics) that give + to XP you will build units with 2 promotions out of the gate.
 
Immortals for teh win! Seriously, they have +50% vs archers. I think they're one of the best UUs in the game for that reason.
 
Yes, but they don't get city raider. With theocracy you can build city raider II swordsmen, which have insane bonuses against cities. Of course, if the AI is smart they're also holding a few axemen back for defense, which makes things really hard.

But if all else fails, just throw twice as many units at them. You'll probably win, unless they're on a hill with walls and a +105% culture bonus. Then you need ten times as many units.
 
Rirse said:
Okay I am veteran of Civilization 3, but I am having differculty killing the archer units in CIV4. Their first strike messes up any unit I send in, and if I use a archer, they switch to a unit who strong against them.
Anybody notice this? :lol:

Hey, Rirse: WHAT UNIT did the AI switch to? ;) :p
 
They switched to a spearman when I put in a elphant rider to attack. Same thing happen later on with a knights. Oh and I found out the grendier units do some heavy damage against archers.
 
The AI will quickly re-garrison his cities with Longbows, so unless you get to them early, swordsmen and Macemen will die in droves. The only thing that worked well is artillary units. Get enough collateral damage and swordsmen/macemen and calvary for the win. Without bombard/Collateral dmg you need atleast a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio.
 
City raider upgrades are huge. I usually pick that with most of my melee units. The AI doesn't do much fighting out in the open, preferring to sit a huge stack in their cities all the time. So that city raider promo really helps.
 
I had very good luck with crossbowmen vs. defending archers. Of course, any time you have a significant technological advantage it helps.

BTW, from my first game on settler level--Gunships & Modern Armor wreak havoc on archers.:lol:
 
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