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What the Hiawatha!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CultureManiac, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. CultureManiac

    CultureManiac Prince

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    OK, so I'd noticed the AI making massive, and I mean massive empires with Hiawatha. Yet when I looked at his abilities they didn't seem spectacular. So I played a few games to try him out.

    Holy Hiawatha, Batman. If you get dropped into a forest Hiawatha is an economic powerhouse. Don't think of his UA as one of increased movement - ie, only free roads. It also means there is little to no maintenance cost, so it becomes an economic UA. In my last game I had a network of cities at one point in the midgame bringing in 80 GPT in trade, with only 10 GPT tile maintenance. That's a lot of free cash. It saves workers' time, and cities hook up and start providing GP from trade before it would have been profitable to lay down a road.

    The Iroquois are also well suited to an isolated start - other civs tend to leave you alone in the forest, as it is slow slogging at 1 hex per turn. You, however, are moving like it's road. If they try to invade, it's a slaughterhouse. They can only see and move one hex. You can see everyone because they are in your empire, you can move quickly and the Mohawk Warrior gets a +50% bonus attacking into forest.

    Like I said, slaughterhouse.

    The longhouse is no slouch either. At +1P for every forest tile worked, if you start throwing down lumber mills with an additional +1P, your production can be amazing.

    The combination of economic and production bonuses is quite substantial with the Iroquois, and they are much stronger than they appear at first glance. Anyone else having this much fun with them?
     
  2. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I haven't had a chance to play them yet. When their abilities (UU, UA, and UB) were announced, I disliked that it seemed to be putting all your eggs in one basket. But if you have that basket, they would definitely be awe-inspiring. Glad to see that they're worthwhile.
     
  3. Duraska

    Duraska Chieftain

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    I believe you can build tradeposts over forests without cutting down the trees too, right?
     
  4. BobDole

    BobDole American Leader in Civ VI

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    Yep, it makes it a pretty balanced tile overall. As long as you play with start bias or whatever it is that puts everyone in their sort of "natural" environment, Hiawatha is surprisingly good. If you don't, then chances are he'll suck, like when I turned it off on an Earth map and got dropped in the deserts of North Africa.
     
  5. Narmical

    Narmical Chieftain

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    Yes you can build a trading post in an intact forest!
    I totally agree that Hiawatha is amazing! The only problem i ran into was expanding into other empires territory.

    I started in a forest (i think initial placement is biased that way) and everything was peachy keen. However when I tried to take over Rome, there was a "culture shock", of not having forests :-(

    The think i like the best is that the UA encouraged me to keep the forests intact. It has a rather 'in tune with nature' feel.
     
  6. The Great Apple

    The Great Apple Big Cheese

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    Playing Hiawatha is a bit of a lottery. The UA can be amazing, as can the longhouse be. Alternatively, they can be completely useless. My one game so far with Hiawatha turned out to be the latter.
     
  7. risikawi

    risikawi Chieftain

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    Yes, I believe most improvements work that way in civ v, except for plantations and mines.

    I haven't really managed to play civ v much (from start to finish), but the game in which I randomly got Hiawatah so far has been the best one. I got start in dense jungle-forest area, Ottomans and Greeks were at the other end of landmass. They had a war with each other, so I decided to take out Alexander, who seemed to be on the week side. I ended up having Athens surrounded by trading posts (on open land) and at my end I think I mostly built lumbermils. My borders seemed to be spreading at lightning speed (I think I was playing on quick, though), manufacture speeds were mostly very fast. Meanwhile Ottomans were building an army of their unique units and ...settlers. So I decided to put some effort in researching military techs. I had like 5 units when he declared on me, I managed to wipe him out in two wars and ended up having an army of workers. Then I went out to find other two players, who turned out to be military inferior and went for domination victory. Which didn't go as smoothly, though, because of having to transport troops over ocean to the other side of the world. I think I ranked second or third by score and that was only second game I had manage to finish - with Irouquis Iroquis Quayle is very ancient history. It was, though, slightly boring in the end, knowing that there is no chalange left in the game.
     
  8. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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  9. Bhoy

    Bhoy Chieftain

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    do they get free railroads or am I just being greedy?
     
  10. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

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    Yes free railroads in forest. They're the most viable nation for an ironworks too (workshop in every city) but remember to build it outside your capital for an added railroad production bonus.
     
  11. Bhoy

    Bhoy Chieftain

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    interesting, this could be huge as Railroads to your capital give a 50% production bonus, dont they?
     
  12. Tanthil

    Tanthil Chieftain

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    About forests...why workers have no ability to create forests, like in previous civs? If workers will be able to create forests Hiawatha's people can spread forests in conquered lands :)
     
  13. Vellis

    Vellis Chieftain

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    Hiawatha's my favorite leader so far. The UA is so much fun and if you build a ton of Mohawks early and upgrade them through the ages their forest ability is amazing.
     
  14. DoubleAG

    DoubleAG Chieftain

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    Try playing as him on the great plains map. East of the mississippi is almost nothing but forest. He'll be insanely powerful on that map.
     
  15. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    I played a game as him the other day and was supprised at how powerfull he is I love that the tradepost dont take forest away for him.
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Don't forget that the presence of start bias stacks the odds quite a bit.
     
  17. whomybuddy

    whomybuddy Chieftain

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    big deal/ I play songhai with 33 improvement cost while trade income is 150g/turn. triple gold intake from pillage is huge. 50g for every bar camp. x3 for every city raze.
     
  18. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    75 gold from barb camps, iirc.
     
  19. d,,p

    d,,p Guest

    103 gold from barb camp on epic, iirc.
     
  20. Leo Tang

    Leo Tang Warlord

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    I have to agree. They are a powerful builder-defender civ.

    I am currently on a game of Iroquois trying for a cultural victory, and I have super-cities that I didn't have on other games. Building wonder is so fast that most cities have wonder(s) (and take advantage of Constitution in the freedom branch).
     

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