What to do with England?

[mbbcam]

Is it just me, or is it quite tricky to play as England? (I'm pretty sure it's me, but I'm interested to hear opinions.)

I've played this game more than I should, just recently, but being old and grey and slow to catch on (I remember when the Space Invaders game first reached the UK) I find my performance is -- lousy, really. (OK, I can win on King and Emperor, but I don't do it elegantly or economically.)

I'm presently dabbling with Immortal, Standard speed, Standard size, Continents map, BNW, and I always play as England because I can't get the results I want. (Read = I can't accept the fact that this blasted computer can beat me, so I've become obsessed!!)

I'm slowly coming to the view that terrain is more important than I thought it was. When you are at war, jungles, forests, lakes and hills really do make a difference. Obvious, I suppose, but if you are used to going for Science victories, the terrain surrounding your competitors is almost irrelevant.

The other problem, I've realised, is my personality. I get too excited, and I get fixated on one thing, so a whole lot of other things go wrong while I'm concentrating on that.

Granted, you can't fix my personality, but I'm still interested to hear what people do with England. I note that they don't seem to be a popular choice for "Let's Play" videos and strategy guides.

Cheers!

 

[budweiser]

They are over powered for Domination so no one plays them. In a nutshell you tech to Longbow to clear your continent. You use the spies to get tech then you use the SoL to tackle the other continent.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

They are over powered for Domination so no one plays them. In a nutshell you tech to Longbow to clear your continent. You use the spies to get tech then you use the SoL to tackle the other continent.

Pretty much. Tech the upper tree to get SOTL and use your spies to get the techs needed for longbows (AI almost always tech the lower end of the tree).

But I never played with them above immortal but the tactics should be the same or similar.

 

[joncnunn]

Yup, above is how to go domination with them, and with Longbows effectively being poor mans Artillery it's indeed easy. Their +1 range promotion is retained upon upgrade, and so after you get Artillery you can screen them with Gatling Guns with range 2 if you've not won yet.

England's advantages on the other victory types:

1. Not only does your UA boost your naval speed, it also increases embarked rate making it easier to settle far flung cities in ocean just as much as it makes naval invasions easier.

2. The extra spy can also be a diplomat for an extra vote towards Diplomatic with Globalism or an extra one to largely negate the different ideology modifier for Cultural victory.

3. An extra spy can also mean one more secure city state ally or allow stealing techs from the AI.

 

[Trackmaster]

I think that the extra spy is very powerful. You get most of your utility out of spies (as far as stealing techs) in the Renaissance and Industrial eras, after that the AI makes buildings to make them less effective and uses more counter-spies. So you basically have double the spies when they're most useful and you're guaranteed to steal techs every 15-20 turns.

And, if you spam Longbowmen you have a unit that can attack cities and any other unit outside of the range that they could retaliate until Artillery come about.

 

[renton555]

Open honor 2-3 cities, develop a highly promoted set of composite bowmen, steamroll some civs when you hit machinery. If you can't win domination right then, annex some strong cities and open rationalism, use your extra spy to catch up in tech by turn 170 or so and then go for any victory condition you want.

 

[neilkaz]

I have a question on the spying with England.

What do you do when the civ you are trying to steal from catches you and then you have to decide whether to stop spying or not. (Of course you don't lie).

Also does the negative from getting caught spying ever go away?

 

[DarkestOnion]

England Strategy: Rush to Longbowmen and go Domination Victory, simply put...if you have 'Artillery Range Arrows' then it is usually quite OP. For fun you can also ally every CS to aid you in war with Spies and 'save scumming' until coups work.

 

[mbbcam]

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to provide such useful replies. I am now even more sure that the problem is me!

Specifically, I think there is something wrong with the way I go about combat. It takes me an age to capture a city. I've seen the AI capture another AI city in about two or three turns when it often takes me about fifty. Cities surrounded by hills and forest are the devil to capture. Does anyone know of a good guide for how to go about the actual fighting?

Cheers, and thanks again for all the advice.

 

[budweiser]

To take out the cities, you first have to clear away the defending troops. Then I position my shooters so they can walk into range and shoot. You need 3-5 and some siege helps. I send everything in at once to reduce losses by flooding the AI with targets. Not surprisingly I call this tactic "All in". Make sure you have two melee units which can actually take the city. The AI cant kill 2 in one turn. Sometimes you hold on the melee until the defenses are low. Its all about baiting his shots and moving back if the unit will die next turn.

 

[phillipwyllie]

....the terrain surrounding your competitors is almost irrelevant....

Terrain surrounding you and your competitors is important, if you want to snag key wonders. Even if only going for a science victory. If you aren't winning on Emperor elegantly as you put then I suspect you aren't focusing on science, which means growth, and that means locking your tiles. It also means not having too many cities as each one adds 5% to your tech costs and puppets don't do well in science.

 

[Soffacet]

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to provide such useful replies. I am now even more sure that the problem is me!

Specifically, I think there is something wrong with the way I go about combat. It takes me an age to capture a city. I've seen the AI capture another AI city in about two or three turns when it often takes me about fifty. Cities surrounded by hills and forest are the devil to capture. Does anyone know of a good guide for how to go about the actual fighting?

Cheers, and thanks again for all the advice.

Use ranged units to focus-fire enemy units from just out of range of the city. Surround and bombard the city once most of the defenders are dead. Use one melee unit (preferably a mounted one) to capture the city once the HP is zero.

 

[renton555]

Also, some cities just aren't on the menu until you reach artillery. Don't plan for theaters of war that are in very unfavorable terrain, with lots of choke points and forests/hills/jungles/etc, unless the city is very worth it, either it has crucial wonders, is a capital and you're going for DV, or has tactical importance. The range promotion isn't as good as it seems, logistics is far better. These units can't indirect fire so to get actual 3 range you have to have an unobstructed view of the target.

 

[59saintdane]

Question: is the Longbowmen range promotion the same as the range promotion you unlock normally? Or can you stack the two for a 4 range Longbowman?

 

[Browd]

It's the same promotion. You can't get it twice.

 

[mbbcam]

Thanks again for all the advice.

Also, some cities just aren't on the menu until you reach artillery.

I think this is particularly valuable! One of my mistakes is thinking that I ought to be able to capture something when it is not really feasible. (Certainly with my level of skill.)

When all is said and done, I don't think there is any completely reliable "paint by numbers" solution to playing the game. You have to look at the situation and make the right decisions. And that is not easy because there are so many variables and so many interactions between the variables. You have to know when to depart from the plan, what to vary, and how much to vary it. Clausewitz suggested that warfare was most similar to politics or commerce because they also had this fluid, ever-changing characteristic.

I will keep on plugging away at trying to get better. Again, many thanks to all contributors.

 

[Illianor123]

Make sure you learn the line of sight rules, being able to tell from looking at the terrain if you can get 3 range shots in is very important and can save a lot of time before you attempt to take the "non feasible" cities.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

A tips is to bring a worker or two along so that you can build roads for siege units (only really works for cities who dont have grown their borders to much) so that you can move in, load up and fire in the same turn. Workers can also cut down trees so that your range units dont have their vision blocked. A strong unit will provide cover for the turns it will take you to take down the forest.

 

[consentient]

If you're playing with a lot of water, then England are really strong, otherwise I'm not personally convinced that Longbowmen are all that great. By the time that tech comes round, my ranged units have 'range' anyway, and there isn't any difference I've been able to discern between having 3 and 4 range, since both are more than other units/cities.

I'll take China/Arabia, etc. over England any day.

If I was to play as England, I'd probably explore what can be done with the extra spy in combo with Oxford and other 'boosts' to see if I can hit Autocracy super early and start my way towards Clausewitzian insanity.

 

[renton555]

I think England is far better than China for early domination and far worse than Arabia. But the extra spy and naval bonuses allows England to rebound in mid-late game if the early push wasn't enough to win outright, whereas other early push civs become kind of stranded by then.