What to do with Insane Starts?

[Rooftrellen]

I rarely get a start so good I'm stunned. This one may take the cake.

Spoiler :

Yes, with Spain, I managed to get 2 wonders in my capital. 4 different luxury resources are there too, and I am mountainside. Sure, there are theoretically better starts, but...wow!

That's 22 happiness within 3 tiles of my capital, not counting for discovering the things.

This is a marathon immortal game on a huge Earth map (hence the monument, I don't expect to see anyone else for a while being in America) if that makes any difference.

My first thought was...dang, with so much happiness, I can go as wide as I want!

Then a second thought occurred...with so much happiness, I can get a few monster cities, just grabbing the select few best spots!

Going wide does take unique luxuries, but normally I find myself pushing cities to claim luxuries, not getting lots of happiness in one city to fund the happiness hit other cities will cost.

Of course, it's somewhat circular. I expand because I want resources. I have happiness from resources so can expand. I expand because I want resources, and on the majority of maps, this stops only when bad city spots are left (understanding that going tall demands a higher quality spot to found another city, and some city spots might have been good but for reasons not related to that specific place).

However, being frontloaded on incoming happiness that much almost destroys the cycle. I don't need luxury resources. I have all I need.

So, for insanely good starts, what's the plan? Looking at this, I almost feel like I do when I play Poland...I'm in a good spot, I can win this game...but I have no idea what to do next because my position has left me without a sense of direction.

If I get bad starting dirt, I look for better dirt to expand into, either another starting location by force or good unclaimed land. If I'm behind I know to make a plan to get back on top.

When I'm set, I almost lose focus and can start to fall behind.

So, with an awesome start, what's the first move? Tall or wide? Science or something else (long term, obviously science/growth is king early)? I can't be the only one who gets lost in these situations.

 

[Sessy]

LOL I'm guessing you moved around for 10 turns? that's actually a pretty good idea if the game is slow.

I don't play on huge maps, but I'm assuming that wide is almost always good on bigger maps, unless you absolutely cannot find extra luxes to keep up with the 1.5 lux/city standard I usually follow. If you don't settle, the AI will. I can imagine you going for a lot of small cities while producing a ton of stuff in the capital. Technically the capital is already 22 local happiness + 4 global, so you can expand quite a lot.

You should also be able to expand mindblowingly early seeing as you can buy a settler straightup (would be even better on standard speed). man I love Spain...their music is so nice.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Heh, actually, the game started with Old Faithful already in range. I moved my warrior, nothing special. I moved my Settler away from the river and next to the mountain near Old Faithful, and got the Grand Mesa. I figured at that point it was worth the extra turn to move again and get all the insanity.

A few turns later, found the Barringer Crater, surrounded by salt and marble.

On huge maps, there is more room per civ, so wider is better than on smaller maps, but the difference isn't so huge that 4 city tradition doesn't look good, and with so many sources of happiness around Madrid, well, both wide (do to the amount of happiness) and tall (due to the concentration of happiness) look amazing.

Like I said, I just get lost in it all.

That being said, this isn't a OCC, so that expanding early will come into play.

 

[Sessy]

Ok, that's still an insane roll though, I thought there'd be something in the map scripts to separate NWs.

If I were you I'd still go liberty and buy another settler as soon as Madrid grows. 4 city tradition is still ok, but I feel huge maps tend to get drawn out a bit more, and then liberty's production comes into play, plus you're not in such a great food location, so might as well soak up the happiness elsewhere. The other thing is you get much faster tiles done, which is good in your case where so many luxes are in 3 range.

 

[Winsling]

Ok, that's still an insane roll though, I thought there'd be something in the map scripts to separate NWs.

Looks like the Earth map, starting in North America. Yes, it's a ridiculous start when Spain lands there.

Edit - I re-read the OP and it's the Earth map. That tries to have natural wonders in appropriate spots and predates Spain as a Civ.

 

[Illianor123]

You could probably do something like a 7 city tradition. 1 monstrous Capitol, 3 huge secondary cities, 3 larger tertiary cities ( only behind due to having to build aqueducts and not getting the growth bonus).

Get the faith from natural wonders pantheon ASAP and you're good to go for a super religion as well. Get a food or growth bonuses religion for more fun times.

 

[Fire0rb]

Do you have an initial save?

I normally dont play other speeds than normal but with this start i might do it

 

[Redaxe]

Hmmm well if you have 1000 free gold my suggestions would be

1) Buy a worker immediately and buy that nearby wheat tile. Get a farm on it asap.
2) Once you are size 2 buy a settler and find a good second city spot.

Main advice is DON'T buy 2 settlers. The happiness will evaporate much quicker than you think and without a worker & no improved tiles those size 1 cities are just going to fester and not really go anywhere and you will lose your headstart quite quickly.

Obviously try and prioritise a Shrine so you can get the 'faith from natural wonders' pantheon and that's a free religion for you.

Lastly social policy wise I would pick Tradition and aim for Hanging Gardens. You have a lot of good tiles to work but your shortage will be food.

 

[consentient]

(On Deity)

For insanely bad (30-40% of maps), I reroll. I play Civ for enjoyment first, challenge second. I really hope that when the next game comes out they have a better map script. The one they have now is crazy bad. Most of the time I am miles from another civ, there are no CS I can do much with, no decent trade routes. After more than 50 Deity games I am convinced that most of the VidLPs I've watched were carefully selected, not just 'roll and record.'

For insanely good (2% of maps), I usually see if I can break the magical T200 barrier.

 

[Vitruvius]

I thought for earth maps the natural wonders have fixed locations. Unless you are playing scrambled continents. Most of the wonders are in the new world so if you know you landed in the new world, moving around for a few turns doesn't hurt.

 

[Sessy]

Hmmm well if you have 1000 free gold my suggestions would be

1) Buy a worker immediately and buy that nearby wheat tile. Get a farm on it asap.
2) Once you are size 2 buy a settler and find a good second city spot.

Main advice is DON'T buy 2 settlers. The happiness will evaporate much quicker than you think and without a worker & no improved tiles those size 1 cities are just going to fester and not really go anywhere and you will lose your headstart quite quickly.

Obviously try and prioritise a Shrine so you can get the 'faith from natural wonders' pantheon and that's a free religion for you.

Lastly social policy wise I would pick Tradition and aim for Hanging Gardens. You have a lot of good tiles to work but your shortage will be food.

actually with this start he has 9+4+6=19 happiness to begin with, so unless the unhappiness penalties are different on marathon I think settling 2 cities fast is viable. The main problem is on marathon settlers are much more expensive, and so he won't be able to buy 2 with 1000.

I agree with you on one with nature, simply must have with Spain, pumping 8 extra faith early from each NW is insane

 

[crabe]

(On Deity)

For insanely bad (30-40% of maps), I reroll. I play Civ for enjoyment first, challenge second. I really hope that when the next game comes out they have a better map script. The one they have now is crazy bad. Most of the time I am miles from another civ, there are no CS I can do much with, no decent trade routes. After more than 50 Deity games I am convinced that most of the VidLPs I've watched were carefully selected, not just 'roll and record.'

For insanely good (2% of maps), I usually see if I can break the magical T200 barrier.

There is no way that 30-40% of the starts you are rolling are really "insanely bad". It's not the end of the world if you can't reach another civ with a caravan from your capital.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Do you have an initial save?

I normally dont play other speeds than normal but with this start i might do it

Sorry, do not have it now. I actually considered putting it up, but decided not to simply because it's an earth map, and earth maps never vary in NW locations. If you want something similar, it shouldn't take many rerolls to get a start where you can walk a settler to the same area.

This just happened on my first load, and I always have issues when I get a lead, which, obviously, a start like this screams "you're overtaking the AI's soon" at the top of it's lungs.

 

[consentient]

There is no way that 30-40% of the starts you are rolling are really "insanely bad". It's not the end of the world if you can't reach another civ with a caravan from your capital.

Ok, as you wish, substitute "wholly unenjoyable even if I can win" and/or "defeats the point of the map concept/civ concept in the first place". For example, the recent ICL/ECL with Denmark.

 

[Suido]

Do you have an initial save?

I normally dont play other speeds than normal but with this start i might do it

It's an earth map, so play that and hope you get a Nth America start. Insta 3 wonders.