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What to do?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by strijder20, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Hello,

    I've got completely no clue what to do at the moment. Planning has always been one of the weaker points of my game, but now I'm completely lost. Any advice from the more veteran players of you will be very appreciated :)

    I started a game as Vicky (England). Inland Sea, 7 opponents, standard size, and I think normal speed. All other options are the standard ones.

    I've already met Justinian, Genghis and Joao. Yup, 3 times Imperialistic next door :( Justinian and Joao founded a religion, so I guess there isn't any zealot out there I don't know yet (otherwise Joao couldn't get Hinduism).
    Genghis is about 15 tiles away from my capital, Joao 25, and I have no clue about Justinian (but he's somewhere in the west).



    Here's the starting position and the nearby land. By the way, is that a capital suitable for Bureau? I am no expert on such things.

    EDIT: It's played on Monarch, and I teched the following : (popped Masonry) BW -> Agriculture -> TW -> Pottery (popped MC) -> Writing.
     

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  2. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Why'd you tech Wheel before AH when you have piggies in your BFC?

    Or a better question: why did you tech the Wheel soon after BW, which would allow you to settle a city to get copper, and then settle your second city in a place that doesn't get copper?

    Settling on the PH north of the copper gets you copper and cows in the first ring. It's not a tremendous city, but it can work a fair few riverside tiles for a nice commerce town with decent production.

    You've got two good gold cities on either side of you, too, right near those flood plains.

    In short, I can't figure out your rationale for settling the city you did. It's a good site, but am I missing how you were in danger of losing it?
     
  3. cbucks

    cbucks Chieftain

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    2nd city is bad. Settle the desert tile between cow and copper, that is a much better production city. You should cottage that Capitol asap as well
     
  4. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    I have a (bad) excuse for not settling near the copper : I have only recently revealed that copper tile, and thus didn't know it existed. TW was probably a mistake, though.
    That eastern gold site is next to Genghis' cap, by the way.
     
  5. cbucks

    cbucks Chieftain

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    Better land to the west anyway. You have zero commerce right now, cottage the flood plains. Next city on desert tile, then go for western gold, probably 1s of it, looks like cows aNd flood plains
     
  6. ShengWuLien

    ShengWuLien Chieftain

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    It doesn't look like a great Bureau cap to me. Tons of production though. You've got stone, and a cap that can be farmed to run scientists--Mids, maybe? I bet you can find a site with more commerce if you want to move your palace.

    All is not lost. There's a good site involving the cows and copper to the west--on the PH or the desert tile right there.

    To the south of that there's gold, and do I see grassland cows in the very bottom corner there? If I'm right you could get a coastal city with gold and cows first ring and it's also riverside.

    The sheep to the east are surrounded by a lot of nice forest for chopping and there might be something else in the fog there.

    That gets you to five decent cities already.
     
  7. Seraiel

    Seraiel Chieftain

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    Those are the famous "mine-pigs", he could use them with his first tech, nn for AH.

    Good point, Copper would have been better, but having stone when having Masonry (especially from a Hut) is a powerful good move imho, allowing the Mids.


    To the OP:

    I'd skip AH and tech Alpha asap. Gift some techs to GK to make him your friend, use him as a meatshield against the others, so bribe him against them. Don't fear him, as a friend he's very powerful because he's always underdeveloped so can be bribed easily. Settle that copper asap, maybe even gift him a city to get him to get him to friendly (though you're quite safe at pleased, he can still DoW you) . Use the domestic advisor though, as I guess, that he's WE of some, using the diplomacy screen gives you maluses for trading with WE, using the Domestic advisor shouldn't.

    Explore more, the part of the map you see till now is horrible, nearly no :food: where one could settle cities in the east. Get that FP / Gold site there.
     
  8. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Chieftain

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    Edit: many crossposts with similar points


    Ugh - like TO-M, I think it looks like you've been lost for a while. To wit: you went Wheel Pottery, but you haven't improved any tiles with roads, and you haven't improved any tiles with cottages, and then you teched Writing when you aren't ready to construct a Library.

    I also notice (resource bubbles on please) that your placement of York blocked your access to the clams.

    OK, enough griping - what should the plan be from here? As I see it, you want to get a few things done faster than possible (a) get a Library in the capital (b) train more workers (c) train some defensive units (d) claim land.

    Complete the current settler - he and the worker go to the desert patch next to the copper and the cows. Completely AH so you can improve the cows; don't worry about the worker micro; just get the jobs done - improve copper, connect copper to city, improve cows, connect city to capital. Ideally that city gets the copper connected quickly, and pounds out some (5+) axes for you.

    You also want to send an escorted settler to the sheep in the NorthEast. Not clear which specific tile the city belongs on (probably the empty tile below the sheep), but the sheep should be in the first ring. You'll need a worker up there to improve the sheep, then start chopping - probably a Library, and certainly a worker.

    The city after that is probably next to the cows and the gold in the SW.

    After that, maybe another city SE of the rice. Not clear - depends how you much you like copper + cows with green farms on the river.

    After AH, you probably want Mysticism to get some border pops, and then Monarchy to compensate for the lack of a happy cap.

    With copper connected, you could look at forge + colossus in which ever of your coastal cities has the best hammer potential, and maybe trying to push an interesting stone wonder out.

    The capital has a pretty good food surplus, so you are likely to hire scientists there, and also at Sheep, to get a fast Academy in place, and maybe a second scientist for a bulb or to settle. But neither of these cities is your long term GP farm - cottage them hard, and work the cottages.

    Given standard settings (and yes, it is normal speed - we can tell from the date/turn number pair), I think you're going to be pretty peaceful for the next 50 turns.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Mined pigs is a good idea IF you have other food resources. AH should have been teched first here.

    The cap is only a modest bureau cap, so I might look for other options. However, with Vicky being FIN the non-riverside cottages are not bad. Still, I might look to focus this city more on production.
     
  10. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    So, I've decided to play a 50-ish turns further in the game.

    Tech path: AH -> Alpha -> (trade for IW, Hunting, Archery, Mono, Priesthood, Sailing, Meditation and Mysticism) Currency.

    Some barbs decided to found the Western gold spot :mad: I have almost enough axes to take them out.

    Justinian and Hannibal (southern neighbour of Justinian) are Buddhists, I, Genghis, Gilg and Joao are Hindus and Mao hasn't made up his mind yet.

    Genghis is still at cautious (maybe because I stole his gold spot :blush:) but maybe that'll change. He isn't in WHEOOHRN but is willing to declare on people. I could have bribed him against Joao a few turns back but I didn't have enough technologies to trade him.

    I'm about to complete the myds. I invested some turns into Monarchy (bad move) but that might not be that useless as Monarchy also leads to other techs and enables me to improve London's wine.

    I discovered Horses in London's BFC. I've also got Iron. No ellies anywhere nearby. Furs are available but I'll have to found a crappy city to get them.

    I used the first GS to found an academy in London, and my second GS will arrive in 7 turns.

    Should I bulb Math? Should I tech math (7 turns) and use the GS for something else? Should I still go for the Hanging Gardens? (Considering Hanni has Math...)

    I can get Marble for Copper (have two) from Joao. Should I try some marble wonder in London? Which one? Maybe the Parthenon will help, has some energy with Representation specialists.

     

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  11. GamerJoe

    GamerJoe Chieftain

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    Could you also post the 4000bc save? Maybe I have some spare time to shadow this game.

    Further i think that many of the comments above also apply to your second set of turns. The most important is probably that you land isnt improved as much as it should be.
     
  12. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Yeah, Canterbury is working an unimproved tile and Nottingham's rice has to be improved, but aside from that, where am I lacking improvements?

    Here's the save!
     

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  13. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    I blame poor scouting then. Ideally, your scouting units should trace sort of a circle around your capital (or you should at least have a few going opposite directions). Look at your map--one of your scouts has veered waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off course.

    Remember that the goal of the primary goals of your scouting units isn't per se to find the other civs (though that's part of it); the first thing you want them to do is find good places to put cities, and you're a long way from being able to settle the places you've scouted.

    Your second save is quite a bit stronger, but it looks like you still need more improvements (Hastings needs pastured sheep, Nottingham still seems to need its rice farmed, Bactrian needs its gold mined, Coventry must be missing culture because it needs a LOT of work, and you can camp those furs up north for more smileys). With 7 cities, you should shoot for 10-12 workers--maybe more. They have a lot to do.
     
  14. GamerJoe

    GamerJoe Chieftain

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    @The Oz-Man In strijder20 defence I think that he didnt know the copper was there at all not because of the scouting, but because of the lack of bronze working. If i interpret him correctly.
     
  15. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    But by his own admission, BW was the first thing he teched. The only way I can think of to miss copper five tiles from the capital when BW is the first thing teched is poor scouting.
     
  16. cbucks

    cbucks Chieftain

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    I'd farm Nottingham, get the mines up and turn into your he city
     
  17. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    bad position of city 2 catched my eyes too.

    setting desert 1NE of copper is better if he knows AH at time of settling, otherwise I would strongly think about settling with rice and copper 1st ring

    starting city 2 with worker build is surely bad planning, try to avoid this. The way you should do it is have 2 workers from cap (or the first worker going with settler to improve good 1st ring tiles and second worker in cap in the works).

    your city 2 should be net benefit to your empire (the maintenance is relatively low), but the way you did this is draining you instead of helping

    City 2 regularly takes over s/w duty after cap builds library, so your city 2 has to be strong with at least 3 good tiles and some hills.

    not sure why you missed out on the clams if you went the way you did (you preferred stone so much?)
     
  18. Tatran

    Tatran Chieftain

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    York isn't placed bad.
    When you have stone nearby, you are focusing on getting the Pyramids.

    Sometimes you have to ignore a resource.
    And you'll have a very weak city when setting on the 1SW plains tile to work the clams.
     
  19. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    2nd ring stone without access to monument and creative leader and no trade route at T51 (so the stone access is like 30 turns away! basically gambling on getting Mids)..

    you must be kidding.
    That city is plainly bad for all purposes I would come out as excuse.

    edit:

    actually that pigs+clams spot is interesting option for running scientists... actually offers best sustained number of scientists of all cities settled up to T100.
     
  20. gspchamp999

    gspchamp999 Chieftain

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    No clams =o
     

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