what type of victory do you hate?

i hate everything which i cant control. Thats includes everything but Conquest. Other events just dont justify a game end. At the end the only thing which counts are guns.

What do i care if some civ is really
-cultured, didnt stop Greece from being conquered. Should we all speak greek now?
-lasted x turns, didnt stop anyone in history yet from being annihilated. Should we all speak egyptian now?
-launch a space ship to whatever, didnt stop USSR to fall apart. Should we all speak russian now?
-Diplomatic Victory. Now thats the worst. A bunch of bureaucrats telling me i just lost and can pack away my mighty armies of mass destruction.

-Domination Victory is not really bad. In fact thats quite good in theory. In practice though, if you are meeting its reqs, you most probably won anyway and having fun right now, using the resources of your mighty empire, successfully managed through time, to obliterate everything. And this type of victory destroys the fun. Not fun.


hehe, i need to edit that list.

Domination victory. Control a huge portion of the world and its population. Should we all speak english now?
 
Conquest is the only way I roll.

Strangely, I never win games, just...almost win them, get bored, then start over.
 
as for me i never go for time. but afaik, no one ever goes for time - it's just a kind of tie-breaker when all others conditions are failed in a devastated or (never actually saw that) underdeveloped world.

there is one more thing strange about a dip victory - why do capitulated vassals always vote for their masters? shouldn't they hate masters because of war declaration, demands etc, despite the very fact of beein conquered and opressed). i know comp often gift their techs to vassals and even may occasionally gift a city, but even vassals who were conquered severals time, liberated and conquered again and again, so they should have a -12 or even more towards their opressors, seen to vote for them.however, i didn't check the exact numbers.

as for other conditions, they seem to be nicely balanced.

(however, that's not clear how Space and Culture are supposed to win a game)

please forgive my english it's highly non-native :)
 
time...............its for those who cant play the game well........
:)

Try intentionally getting it on monarch + and say that again :p.

Nevertheless, I hate it too. It's boring, and takes the longest to achieve.
 
culture... so boring and unflexible, but I don't turn it off because the AI is having enough problems anyway. Don't want to take away something that sounds satisfying as racing through the enemy cities to raze a legendary.
 
as for me i never go for time. but afaik, no one ever goes for time - it's just a kind of tie-breaker when all others conditions are failed in a devastated or (never actually saw that) underdeveloped world.

there is one more thing strange about a dip victory - why do capitulated vassals always vote for their masters? shouldn't they hate masters because of war declaration, demands etc, despite the very fact of beein conquered and opressed). i know comp often gift their techs to vassals and even may occasionally gift a city, but even vassals who were conquered severals time, liberated and conquered again and again, so they should have a -12 or even more towards their opressors, seen to vote for them.however, i didn't check the exact numbers.

as for other conditions, they seem to be nicely balanced.

(however, that's not clear how Space and Culture are supposed to win a game)

please forgive my english it's highly non-native :)

I don't hate any victory types.


time victoriesI'm in general agreement with you in regard to time victories. A time victory is a monument to failed ambitions and lost hopes . I see them as a consolation prize, recognition for tennacity and superiority, often because of an isolated start that leaves you technologically backward and outside of the dominant religion.

Rather than being boring, time victories often represent a down to the wire series of succesful resistances...preventing Izzie from becoming Pope, withstanding Shaka's assault, Ghandi's culture, Hannibal's designs on space and Russian ambitions for world domination.

diplomatic victories I think vassals can and should vote with their overlords be it out of fear rather than love. When the Russians announced their boycott of the the Los Angeles Olympics in 1980, the East Germans didn't join, saying they intended to win the games. Within the week they reversed themselves. It's hard to defy an occupation army diplomaticly.
It's hard to bite the hand that feeds you techs and resources.

space and culture Greece has earned immortality culturally...drama, architechture, philosophy, geometry, government, etc.. The USSR and the USA probably did the same with firsts in space.
 
space and culture Greece has earned immortality culturally...drama, architechture, philosophy, geometry, government, etc.. The USSR and the USA probably did the same with firsts in space.

Well, that's true, but immortality doesn't mean victory. I mean, such victory types as conquest/domination/diplomacy are quite clear - either there is no power in the world to stand against your rule or every power has agreed to obey it, so the future becomes crystal-clear and evident :).
but i wonder how culture is supposed to stop invading enemy hordes or how launching an interstellar spaceship few years before your rivals guarantees your world domination?
 
Well, that's true, but immortality doesn't mean victory. I mean, such victory types as conquest/domination/diplomacy are quite clear - either there is no power in the world to stand against your rule or every power has agreed to obey it, so the future becomes crystal-clear and evident :).
but i wonder how culture is supposed to stop invading enemy hordes or how launching an interstellar spaceship few years before your rivals guarantees your world domination?

:scan:

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Domination and conquest are certainly decisive victories. A diplomatic victory of some kind is an impressive achievement, but I'm too old and cynical to believe it would last many civ turns in real life .

I started with CIV I. The opening ended with a question. It wasn't "Can you conquer the world?" or "Can you dominate the world?" . There wasn't a diplomatic victory condition. The game always began with the challenge
" Can you build a civilization that will stand the test of time?"

So, to me achieving some kind of immortality has always been the object, and domination and conquest were only expiditious means to that end. A time victory- surviving for the entire 6,000 years of recorded civilization was an achievement and a triumph in and of itself.

I think winning the race to a new planet gives you a conquest victory of it.
The organization, new materials and technologies such an effort would require would find other applications on the home world.

"How is culture supposed to stop invading enemy hordes?"

Culture didn't save the Greeks from the Romans, the French from the Vikings or the Chinese from the Mongols . On the other hand their culture transformed, if not assimilated the invaders.
That has more to do with the legitimacy of cultural victory than cultural defence.

As for a cultural defense ... I guesss that the more culture a civilization has, the more a citizen would prefer to fight to the death than surrender and be forced to change govs, religions and such.
 
well.. actually you don't need a mod. just play a custom game and turn off espionage.
please make sure this is accurate

I would have to reinstall before playing Civ 4 BtS again and want to make sure espionage can be turned off before reinstalling. (I thought I had read posts in the forum complaining about how espionage could not be turned off)

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a later poster in this thread says when espionage is turned off in BtW there is still an affect regarding culture

so if I turn off both espionage and the cultural victory condition is it as if BtW did not have this feature added???

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I agree with the posters who say getting a cultural victory does not seem like a civ has really achieved anything, particularly if because of this diversion of resources they are a third rate military power. by leaving the cultural victory condition turned on I would have to waste time trashing these civs who to me are not "real" opponents anyway. does the AI know it has to trash such civs if it is not pursuing a cultural victory itself?

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I disagree with the poster who said a space victory does not show anything. to me it is clear when a civ is diverting resources from its military to build spaceship components

either a conquest civ or a space race civ has to have a highly developed industrial engine. so a victory of a conquest civ or a space race means something because my experience has been that space race civs are highly competitive militarily even if that is not the victory condition they are seeking

a cultural civ can relatively be backward both militarily and industrially. or am I wrong about that?

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one poster stated a distaste for domination victories. to me a domination victory is a military victory. it seems beside the point to also have to track down every surviving civ beyond a domination victory and trash them to achieve that victory condition. however this is purely a manner of personal taste. others would like the feeling of completion of seeing no other civ left standing

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as starter of this thread did you intend to frame this discussion outside of HoF conditions? a HoF victory does not concern me anymore than a need to achieve victory with every civ on every map size on every victory condition to "prove" I have mastered a difficulty level

even if I did all that, it still would not "prove" I could achieve the same result against any given set of human players in a multiplayer game
 
Espionage can be turned off since the latest patch. If you reinstall you'll find no option to do so. You'll need to download patch 3.17 then go to custom game.

You probably have read posts complaining about espionage- evidently, Firaxis did too and decided to do something about it :goodjob:

If you turn off culture victories you'll still get culture. You'll just not get culture victories. I wasn't aware that the espionage points got turned into culture.

The AI doesn't know to kill opponents going for cultural victories. Cultural civs can be and often are backwards because often they turn off the research slider in favor of the culture slider.
 
please make sure this is accurate

I would have to reinstall before playing Civ 4 BtS again and want to make sure espionage can be turned off before reinstalling. (I thought I had read posts in the forum complaining about how espionage could not be turned off)

--------

a later poster in this thread says when espionage is turned off in BtW there is still an affect regarding culture

so if I turn off both espionage and the cultural victory condition is it as if BtW did not have this feature added???

--------

I agree with the posters who say getting a cultural victory does not seem like a civ has really achieved anything, particularly if because of this diversion of resources they are a third rate military power. by leaving the cultural victory condition turned on I would have to waste time trashing these civs who to me are not "real" opponents anyway. does the AI know it has to trash such civs if it is not pursuing a cultural victory itself?

--------

I disagree with the poster who said a space victory does not show anything. to me it is clear when a civ is diverting resources from its military to build spaceship components

either a conquest civ or a space race civ has to have a highly developed industrial engine. so a victory of a conquest civ or a space race means something because my experience has been that space race civs are highly competitive militarily even if that is not the victory condition they are seeking

a cultural civ can relatively be backward both militarily and industrially. or am I wrong about that?

--------

one poster stated a distaste for domination victories. to me a domination victory is a military victory. it seems beside the point to also have to track down every surviving civ beyond a domination victory and trash them to achieve that victory condition. however this is purely a manner of personal taste. others would like the feeling of completion of seeing no other civ left standing

--------

as starter of this thread did you intend to frame this discussion outside of HoF conditions? a HoF victory does not concern me anymore than a need to achieve victory with every civ on every map size on every victory condition to "prove" I have mastered a difficulty level

even if I did all that, it still would not "prove" I could achieve the same result against any given set of human players in a multiplayer game

Yes well unfortunately the "no espionage" option is absurdly balanced. Clearly no effort went into the feature at all, and it was a token gesture to those who complained about the inclusion of espionage.

All spy GP points are neutral, in that they add to the GP pool but do not affect the weight towards a particular type. So for example, you can effectively assign 2 engineers when you have a forge and courthouse - it's just one of the specialists produces 1 beaker and 4 culture.

The other thing is all espionage points are turned into culture. Makes culture victories far easier, makes the Palace produce an unusual amount of culture early too. It messes with too many things. Everyone keeps throwing around the comment "turn espionage off if you don't like it" but you might as well be telling a basketball player to try using a tennis ball - the game just isn't the same.
 
I never tried time victories, never will. It's a complete, stupid waste of time.

The religious victory has potential, but not the way it's implemented right now. Of course, it's not nearly as bad as time victories, and if my start position is impossibly handicapped, then yes, I will go for it.
 
I have found Conquest to be the most inane victory. I never turn it off but always settle for domination. Truth is once you've secured Domination its really kind of impossible NOT to get conquest at any difficulty level unless you just delete your entire army ... but even then I bet you could probably draft up a second rate army and still pull it off.

Time sucks to get but sometimes its hard to break a close stalemate and its your only option. Me personally I don't play it out but I have seen times where its almost impossible to break out of (you are one of three remaining civs, the other two have a defensive pact but otherwise like you ... and you're all very close in power level). I had this happen one of my first emperor games and nearly rode it out to a time victory but honestly it was going to take 10 hours to finish out those last 200 turns so I made the biggest army I could and tried to take them both on and lost gloriously instead. I just don't have that kind of patience ... at least not for an emperor game (I sure as hell would have rode it out for deity though).
 
I have found Conquest to be the most inane victory. I never turn it off but always settle for domination. Truth is once you've secured Domination its really kind of impossible NOT to get conquest at any difficulty level unless you just delete your entire army ... but even then I bet you could probably draft up a second rate army and still pull it off.

Time sucks to get but sometimes its hard to break a close stalemate and its your only option. Me personally I don't play it out but I have seen times where its almost impossible to break out of (you are one of three remaining civs, the other two have a defensive pact but otherwise like you ... and you're all very close in power level). I had this happen one of my first emperor games and nearly rode it out to a time victory but honestly it was going to take 10 hours to finish out those last 200 turns so I made the biggest army I could and tried to take them both on and lost gloriously instead. I just don't have that kind of patience ... at least not for an emperor game (I sure as hell would have rode it out for deity though).

It's difficult to win time on anything monarch+ if you can't win another victory (aka if you're not intentionally going time). Several AIs will trip a victory condition before 2050...and usually if you have the means to stop them you have the means to win on your own.

Winning time on emp+ is quite deliberate, one of the more difficult conditions, and incredibly boring.
 
Please help

I just purchased Civ IV complete, (wich includes beyond the sword, warlords and the origional). I can not get the ralling point feture to work. I have looked it up and it says shift + rite click on a city, but that does not work. Does anyone know how to set a ralling point???

Thank you.
 
Please help

I just purchased Civ IV complete, (wich includes beyond the sword, warlords and the origional). I can not get the ralling point feture to work. I have looked it up and it says shift + rite click on a city, but that does not work. Does anyone know how to set a ralling point???

Thank you.
 
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