I'm trying to build a decent fleet to take out Victoria and Sitting Bull's navies before I invade their continent. I've built about 10 missile cruisers stocked with 4 guided missiles, coupled with 5 or 6 Aircraft carriers fully loaded with jet fighters. My basic plan of attack will be to find an enemy fleet, with a group of my navy (2 Missile Cruisers, 1 carrier 3 jetfighters) launch my guided missiles (8) and then attack with the jets and the Missile Cruisers. Is this a decent pomo (post-modern) naval strategy? Should subs or destroyers be incorporated. How effective will the guided missiles be at weakening enemy ships? How effective will the jets be?
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What units comprise a good modern navy?
- Thread starter someboots
- Start date
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,060
You might want to go around looking at their port cities. The AI will often keep all their navy in a single city, and you can pull a pearl harbor on them and capture that one city and destroy the majority of their navy in 1 quick blow.
MrCynical
Deity
You need at least a couple of destroyers (or maybe attack subs), as you currently haven't got anything that can detect submarines. N.B. Stealth destroyers, unlike normal ones, cannot see submarines. Their sole function is to detect other stealth destroyers.
URSExelcior
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 135
From my experience it's Missile Cruisers or Battleships promoted Drill/Combat, 1 or 2 Destroyers, Transports and maybe a few Carriers thrown in.
Thanks. Missile cruisers are devastating on attack. I launched my four missiles at a stack of two enemy Missile cruisers, two stealth destroyers and numerous transports, and then attacked multiple times with my 1 missile cruiser and took out all 4 warships plus several transports. Each of my 4 guided missiles did only about 25-30% damage on each warship, but it gave me tremendously favorable odds in the subsequent one on one battles with the warships. I have another question. Can ships before the post-Modern age attack as many times as they have movement points?
PS
My aircraft carrier jet attacks were not nearly as effective as I thought they would be. Should the carrier and the jets be used primarily for defense?
PS
My aircraft carrier jet attacks were not nearly as effective as I thought they would be. Should the carrier and the jets be used primarily for defense?
Destroyers/Battleships Can only attack once per turn.
Personally, if I use carriers/fighters I use them to either soften up a few tough defenders before my assault troops hit, or I use them to harass the coast and bomb enemy improvements. Their not overly useful in naval combat in my experience.
Personally, if I use carriers/fighters I use them to either soften up a few tough defenders before my assault troops hit, or I use them to harass the coast and bomb enemy improvements. Their not overly useful in naval combat in my experience.
Sim_One
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Messages
- 1,073
Naval units can get the blitz promotion and attack more than once per turn, after they have combat 3 promotion.
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
You'll really need these, because without them, the enemy stealth destroyers will target your WEAKEST unit in your stack.
they may not defend your stack against the enemy, but they will defend against other strealth destroyers.
also and attack submarine or 3, for defence against other subs would help, but main stay should be Missle carriers (40 strength), transports full of marines to attack and defend new cities. Stealth destroyer (defend against stealth destroyers), attack Subs (defend against subs) and Carriers (air power).
Missle carriers take down cities defences, some missles to attack defenders, fighters to remove fighter covearage and bomb defenders if any remain. Marines to assult city via sea, and then some with city garrison to defend. Heli's to remove the rails around the city Preferable 2 tiles deep.
they may not defend your stack against the enemy, but they will defend against other strealth destroyers.
also and attack submarine or 3, for defence against other subs would help, but main stay should be Missle carriers (40 strength), transports full of marines to attack and defend new cities. Stealth destroyer (defend against stealth destroyers), attack Subs (defend against subs) and Carriers (air power).
Missle carriers take down cities defences, some missles to attack defenders, fighters to remove fighter covearage and bomb defenders if any remain. Marines to assult city via sea, and then some with city garrison to defend. Heli's to remove the rails around the city Preferable 2 tiles deep.
Hi there,
I recently played a game where I was pretty much set up to win (it was a domination and I just needed to build up my pop a bit)on the 18civs earth map. Anyways, I started building up a big modern navy so I could go over and punish Monty (just for something to do really!), and I found that a good upgrade to use was the one that lets you see an you an extra square.
Obviously, you only need one ship with this upgrade per naval stack (and I guess with them being able to see subs, destroyers would be the best for this), but it's well handy. With a few smaller stacks, each with a 'scout' ship, you can cover vast amounts of the sea and you'll be able to see exactly what your foes are up to.
I recently played a game where I was pretty much set up to win (it was a domination and I just needed to build up my pop a bit)on the 18civs earth map. Anyways, I started building up a big modern navy so I could go over and punish Monty (just for something to do really!), and I found that a good upgrade to use was the one that lets you see an you an extra square.
Obviously, you only need one ship with this upgrade per naval stack (and I guess with them being able to see subs, destroyers would be the best for this), but it's well handy. With a few smaller stacks, each with a 'scout' ship, you can cover vast amounts of the sea and you'll be able to see exactly what your foes are up to.
I usually run with 6 ship formations: 4 battleships, 1 destroyer, and 1 carrier with three air units.
Carrier generally gets sentry, destroyer gets withdrawal and combat promotions, and battleships get combat and collateral damage promotions. I might increase the number of battleships to 6 for stronger opponents, making it an 8 ship formation. Or I might increase the carriers to 3, for an 8 ship formation, if I have naval superiority and want to do a coast raid.
I'd use the coast raid as a cheaper alternative to invading if I wanted to focus purely on naval superiority and weakening an opponent without committing to a long war and heavy ground/transport unit production.
If I roll with multiple groups, one carrier heavy group and one battleship heavy group with 2-4 regular, 6 ship groups protecting the carrier heavy group. In such a scenario I might go with just one big stack of death (so boring, though), a closed up box, or a 3-tile spread wedge/echelon formation with the battleship heavy group on point and the carrier heavy group in trail, with the 6 ships on the sides:
6-----
------
--6---
C-----
-----B...............[Enemy?]
6----
-----
--B--...........[Enemy?]
-----
C---6
-6
CB.......[Enemy!]
-6
My version of CSGs. The wedge/echelon formations are so that the planes in each group can do recon work in their respective sectors, allowing for more area to be covered/defended. Once a threat is detected, the formations allow for flexible response, depending on the nature of the threat, which can turn it into a stack of death or the box formation.
Carrier generally gets sentry, destroyer gets withdrawal and combat promotions, and battleships get combat and collateral damage promotions. I might increase the number of battleships to 6 for stronger opponents, making it an 8 ship formation. Or I might increase the carriers to 3, for an 8 ship formation, if I have naval superiority and want to do a coast raid.
I'd use the coast raid as a cheaper alternative to invading if I wanted to focus purely on naval superiority and weakening an opponent without committing to a long war and heavy ground/transport unit production.
If I roll with multiple groups, one carrier heavy group and one battleship heavy group with 2-4 regular, 6 ship groups protecting the carrier heavy group. In such a scenario I might go with just one big stack of death (so boring, though), a closed up box, or a 3-tile spread wedge/echelon formation with the battleship heavy group on point and the carrier heavy group in trail, with the 6 ships on the sides:
6-----
------
--6---
C-----
-----B...............[Enemy?]
6----
-----
--B--...........[Enemy?]
-----
C---6
-6
CB.......[Enemy!]
-6
My version of CSGs. The wedge/echelon formations are so that the planes in each group can do recon work in their respective sectors, allowing for more area to be covered/defended. Once a threat is detected, the formations allow for flexible response, depending on the nature of the threat, which can turn it into a stack of death or the box formation.
Catan_Settler
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
- Messages
- 448
Wow you guys sure don't build many destroyers! I always make my fleet up of like half destroyers, half battleships/cruisers/carriers, generally placing more emphasis on the number of carriers than battleships.
Early modern fleet: 4 Destroyers, 2 Carriers
Post-industrialism fleet: 5 Destroyers, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers
Late modern fleet: 8 Destroyers, 4 Missile Cruisers, 4 Carriers
I find anything less than 6 fighters to be insufficient to bomb enemy ships before hitting them with mine... Likewise bombarding city defenders for the marines. 3 Carriers with their 9 accompanying fighters is really "the sweet spot" for a task force that acts independantly and is capable of suppressing enemy naval AND land defenses with minimal ship and troop losses. Fighters work great for naval combat, as long as you have enough of them to get through destroyer (and sometimes fighter) intercept chances. More carriers is IMO far more important than more battleships, as with sufficient air power you will be using your own destroyers to pick off their weakened battleships with ease. This is also why I build more destroyers-- they're cheap, disposable and start out with tons of movement points so you can build them en masse in marginal production cities. Whereas with transports, battleships, carriers you really want to be building them with at least 5 and preferably 10 xp so you can get them as many movement points as possible, which greatly increases your ability to wage quick coastal wars, nevermind successfully defend against suprise attacks.
I really hate using cruise missiles to be honest, it's too time consuming to be constantly moving missiles around and reloading the ships. The point of a modern navy is to project your power a long ways away from your own territory, and having to constantly send your big fighting ships back to home turf to rearm is, well, very counter-intuitive to that. I love putting nukes on them though, then my fighters can focus on enemy fighters and bombing strategic resources, leaving the nukes to clear cities for my marines. Or two-shot massive enemy naval stacks.
My advice is build more destroyers and carriers. With only 1 or 2 carriers per fleet, you're not usually able to plow through their destroyer and fighter screens in a single turn, which is what you need to do to pick off those capital ships before they disappear back into port or start causing collateral damage to your transports and carriers. By massing destroyers you also make it harder for their warships to even get a crack at your soft underbelly, the all important carriers and transports... If you were building lots of battleships instead of destroyers, you'll have a whole lot less of them to soak up the incoming attacks when you get too close to an enemy naval base, or stack of doom. Nevermind the fact that this also gives you very solid protection against enemy air power, freeing your fighters to support the ground campaign.
Early modern fleet: 4 Destroyers, 2 Carriers
Post-industrialism fleet: 5 Destroyers, 2 Battleships, 3 Carriers
Late modern fleet: 8 Destroyers, 4 Missile Cruisers, 4 Carriers
I find anything less than 6 fighters to be insufficient to bomb enemy ships before hitting them with mine... Likewise bombarding city defenders for the marines. 3 Carriers with their 9 accompanying fighters is really "the sweet spot" for a task force that acts independantly and is capable of suppressing enemy naval AND land defenses with minimal ship and troop losses. Fighters work great for naval combat, as long as you have enough of them to get through destroyer (and sometimes fighter) intercept chances. More carriers is IMO far more important than more battleships, as with sufficient air power you will be using your own destroyers to pick off their weakened battleships with ease. This is also why I build more destroyers-- they're cheap, disposable and start out with tons of movement points so you can build them en masse in marginal production cities. Whereas with transports, battleships, carriers you really want to be building them with at least 5 and preferably 10 xp so you can get them as many movement points as possible, which greatly increases your ability to wage quick coastal wars, nevermind successfully defend against suprise attacks.
I really hate using cruise missiles to be honest, it's too time consuming to be constantly moving missiles around and reloading the ships. The point of a modern navy is to project your power a long ways away from your own territory, and having to constantly send your big fighting ships back to home turf to rearm is, well, very counter-intuitive to that. I love putting nukes on them though, then my fighters can focus on enemy fighters and bombing strategic resources, leaving the nukes to clear cities for my marines. Or two-shot massive enemy naval stacks.
My advice is build more destroyers and carriers. With only 1 or 2 carriers per fleet, you're not usually able to plow through their destroyer and fighter screens in a single turn, which is what you need to do to pick off those capital ships before they disappear back into port or start causing collateral damage to your transports and carriers. By massing destroyers you also make it harder for their warships to even get a crack at your soft underbelly, the all important carriers and transports... If you were building lots of battleships instead of destroyers, you'll have a whole lot less of them to soak up the incoming attacks when you get too close to an enemy naval base, or stack of doom. Nevermind the fact that this also gives you very solid protection against enemy air power, freeing your fighters to support the ground campaign.
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
I would go with more carriers. The power of lots and lots of jet fighters should not be underestimated. The main advantage of carriers/jet fighters is that they're not one-shot, like missiles, and that you can more easily replace them IIRC. More destroyers would also be good because they need less hammers than missile cruisers and if the enemy ships are already softened up by jet fighter/missile damage you can pick them off with destroyers rather than having to use the heavy capital ships.
That being said, I have little experience with fighting an actual naval war - my navies are often built for effective amphibious attacks rather than engaging enemy ships. You'll face little trouble from enemy navies once their ports are razed.
That being said, I have little experience with fighting an actual naval war - my navies are often built for effective amphibious attacks rather than engaging enemy ships. You'll face little trouble from enemy navies once their ports are razed.
