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What Video Games Have You Been Playing #11: I should go

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aimeeandbeatles, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Good to see you avoided the trap of making alliances with your neighbors! It gets in the way of conquering. What's your army composition?

    The east is great because once you've conquered it, you can pack it with industrial and commerce buildings, plus farms to feed them, and never worry about invasion. Meanwhile the Eastern factions tend to be mostly crappy spearmen, who are easy prey.
     
  2. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Uh. About avoiding alliances. I actually made a defensive alliance with Baktria and you start allied with the Dahae and I think Aria as well...anyway, Dahae and Aria were at war and Dahae captured one of the Arian settlements, then asked me to join the war on Aria so I did, and took their remaining two settlements to take 'em out. Next it's looking like I'll have to fight Persia, who took out Parthava and hold a good deal of the east-central Iranian plateau (south and west of my territory).

    my army composition as of now is all armored HA and basic HA. Seems like the strategy for HA in this game is mostly kiting the enemy till you run out of ammunition, then mopping up, in contrast to Med2 where morale shocks make HAs useful for insta-outing enemy units by charging them from three directions at once.

    Enemy armies seem to have a lot of skirmisher horse and usually a couple of mercenary Persian cavalry on top of the spears and foot archers. These cavalry units along with the generals' bodyguards are the only ones that really give me any trouble, the eastern infantry are seemingly just rabble. I used some mercenary Persian cavalry of my own along with elephants in the first battle but they are too slow to keep up with the HAs while kiting so I was basically forced to sacrifice them alone (though they took their toll of the enemy heavy cavalry before dying) instead of using them properly in concert with the rest of my forces.
     
  3. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    I bought No Man's Sky on sale but turns out the VR patch isn't out yet. I'll shelf it for now. Oh and I hope they'll patch it in and not release it as a separate game.
     
  4. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Funny, in my game the Baktrians went to war with me after conquering the Dahae. Took me a long time to conquer and assimilate them, but their land was valuable.

    I tend to split my horse archers into two groups to flank the enemy. When possible, I only let them shoot when they're at the enemy's rear or right flank to bypass the shields. I target the cavalry first, since even average horsemen can wreck any light horse archers they catch. Then come the enemy archers, then the general, before I pick off the infantry. The lancers spend the whole battle avoiding combat until my horse archers have run out of arrows, and their charge wrecks any survivors quickly.
     
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I only usually do this when the enemy has units that I think are too resistant to "normal" arrow fire. Like generals' bodyguards in Medieval 2. The most recent battle I took out the entire general's bodyguard in less than a minute by concentrating about the fire of ~15 HA units on it at once from behind.

    Baktria wanted the alliance in exchange for a pittance of gold so I figured why not, I can use a safe border while I conquer enough land to take my erstwhile allies out. I can't remember if they're at war with Dahae or not right now.

    Armored HA are sufficiently better than basic HA that I just disbanded all the initial units (spears and horse skirmishers lol) and built up almost 20000 gold before researching the armored HA tech and building the building that lets you recruit them. So I had some gold to burn on diplomacy.
     
  6. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    That...is a lot of gold.

    I stick with Parthian Horse Archers because they do more damage with horse archery. I tend not to use my horse archers for melee at all unless the enemy is already beaten, so their otherwise worse stats aren't a problem for me. Not sure I've ever had 15 HAs at once; that's gotta be brutal for the poor enemy!

    Do you ever use flaming arrows? I've always stuck with Heavy Shot or regular arrows myself.
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Whole army was 20 units, 17 HA (forget the exact split between Armored and Parthian but I had about twice as many Armored) plus the elephants and the mercenary Persian cav and the general's bodyguard which is also HA. I don't have the tech to build lancers right now.

    Parthian/basic horse archers just seem to get wrecked by enemy missile fire whereas armored HA are significantly more resilient (as you said) so I will probably be relying on armored HA for the most part.

    OTOH once the general was dead and the enemy reduced by missile fire the HAs did what they were supposed to do and routed the enemy with a multi-directional charge.

    Friendly fire seems to be a much more significant problem in this game than in med2 unfortunately.

    I tried em out but they didn't make the enemy waver. Not really sure if their morale effect is going to help much. They might be worth using for the last bit of HA ammo before I charge in. Heavy shot can seriously interfere with kiting because the range is so much shorter but it is devastating if you are in a situation where you can use it without being trapped into melee.
     
  8. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Median Cavalry make good melee cavalry. They can handle enemy horsemen who get too close for comfort to my horse archers. Noble Blood Cavalry is the same but better. Either can scatter enemy missile troops who foolishly stray from their protective spearmen.

    I tend to scatter enemy ranged troops with feigned or real charges, or sometimes by just riding my archers right up and shooting the bejeezus out of them. Once the enemy is down to just melee troops, the Parthian Horse Archers prove their worth, and are free to use Heavy Shot. I tend to use two or more groups of HAs so that I will always have at least a few volleys aimed at the enemy's backs.

    I really wish Parthian Noble Horse Archers were worth it. They're tough to recruit, expensive, slow, and shoot worse than the basic HAs. But the idea of cataphract horse archers is too glorious to pass up.

    I like to recruit a few Eastern, or ideally, Royal Cataphracts. They usually spend the whole battle waiting for orders to charge that never come because the enemy is shot full of arrows and scattered before it comes to that, but cataphracts have always been irresistibly cool. And fully upgraded, they can have over 130 armor, which is unnecessary but simply ridiculous.
     
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  9. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    You guys talking about Horse Archers has made me restart my Bactria campaign!
     
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  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Is it generally better to use the shock cavalry bodyguard?
     
  11. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    horse archers are cheap and plentiful, shock cav less so. I would.
     
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  12. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    So you may see your Eastern and steppe neighbors use them gloriously, and feel envy? :p

    In the early game, it's really hard to get proper lancers. Using the Royal Cataphracts as bodyguards will give you at least some. And they can hit hard.

    On the other hand, Noble Horse Archers can participate in the fighting from a safe distance. I guess it depends on how you use your generals.
     
  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I've been going with the Royal Cataphracts, it's helpful to have a blaine squad. I got Median cavalry and they're fairly disappointing, didn't realize they were melee and not shock.

    Keep making the mistake of charging generals' bodyguard units with like 8 or 9 of my own units, it works in Med2 but not in this game....much easier to dispatch them with missiles...
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    HOI4, resuming my Italy campaign.

    It's now April, 1946. The struggle to contain Germany looks even less likely to succeed than before. Moscow fell in early November, and Leningrad a couple months after that. The Soviets are only a factor insomuch as the huge front ties up many German divisions, and that they have not yet given up, but how they could possibly recover is anyone's guess. That's not the worst of it, though.

    Around December, the Yugoslav front was entirely lost again. Most Italian troops retreated, and there are now both an Alpine front, and a Greek front. Both have held fairly steady, and inflicted heavy losses on the Germans.

    Then, in the west, Spain and Portugal both fell to Germany in March, 1946. Spain had fielded over 100 divisions, and their loss will be sorely felt.

    Now, Germany is redirecting troops from Iberia against the Alpine front, and it is starting to crack near Trieste, and threatening to in the north. The Provencal part of it looked weak, but thanks to some fortifications and a defence of the Rhone, now looks the most steady of all - and is perhaps the most important, due to the steel factories of Lyon and Marseilles. But if any portion of the front implodes, it may mean the end, just as the loss of the Pyranees signaled the end of Spain a few months later.

    Meanwhile, the Communists have won the civil war in America, and are establishing their own faction in the New World.

    There are only two possible source of light. One is that Germany appears to have finished their mobilization ("All Adults Serve"; what most countries still in the war are at), and with their heavy losses in the Alps - 2-2.5 million lost to Italy alone in the past six months - appears to finally be losing manpower. Unfortunately, they still have about 1.5 times that number available, and thus can likely maintain even their current stratospheric losses until early 1947.

    The other is that Britain has now mobilized another couple million more men, and is rebuilding its army. It's an outside shot, but if the timing of the revival of the British Army corresponds with Germany running low on manpower, and somehow the Soviets aren't entirely defeated by then, perhaps a triple Italian-British-Soviet front could actually outlast Germany. Unlikely, perhaps, but one can hope.
     
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  15. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    M2's engine allows multiple troops to attack the same target in melee. The Warscape engine doesn't, AFAIK, so overwhelming numbers don't always actually overwhelm.

    Median Cavalry are just for beating medium and light cavalry and skirmishers. Sorry, should've specified that.

    After exterminating a 2,010-man quality Spartan army by luring them to my small fleet and then murdering them with ballista ships, I'm starting to think this is a cruel exploit. The AI really needs to be programmed to use the escort feature. Poor thing.
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Yeah, they're okay at that but because I am a 1337 cycle charge m4573r I only really want shock cavalry, melee cavalry seems like a waste...I'll have to figure out how to get access to the basic lancers when I get home from work. Mercenary Persian cav are really powerful but they cost as much upkeep as like 3 or 4 units of armored horse archers so using them "stings me like a fissure in my ass", to quote Maury Ballstein.
     
  17. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Cycle charging is a bit trickier in R2 than in M2, I think. At least I have a bit more trouble getting the horsemen out of there. Also, apparently charge bonuses add to the attack rating and drop linearly over 15 seconds, rather than disappearing as soon as the units stops charging. This means you don't strictly have to withdraw immediately after a charge, since they're still doing more damage.

    The first Parthian lancers are Eastern Cataphracts, which require the tier 2 tech "Kataphraktoi." They're very slow and not really that great for cycle charges, but hit hard and are tough to kill. You can put them in wedge formation for a bonus to charging at the cost of speed and defense skill, use the Trample ability to further boost charge at the cost of exertion, or both, or neither. Either ability is effectively betting everything on breaking the enemy with a single charge because they'll be vulnerable if they use them and don't.

    They also look pretty great.

    The best faction for elite horse archery and lancer charges is the Roxolani. Cavalry charges in Rome 2 tend to stay around 70 for shock cavalry, but with the right Roxolani units, general and champion skills, techs, buildings, and abilities, I've gotten over 170!

    Tough beginning for the Roxolani, though, and every unit they have that isn't cavalry is beneath mention or recruitment.
     
  18. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    The most important thing about cataphracts is that you can't let them become exhausted; exhausted units lose like 90% of their armor, effectively, if they are stuck in combat against a unit that isn't at least 'tired'. I made efforts to use higher-stamina medium cavalry or lightly-armored lancers for this reason.
     
  19. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I usually take a few more casualties but I think it's actually easier since the unit AI doesn't seem to turn around and keep fighting so you have to give repeated orders to retreat (as is often the case in Med2 unless you time it exactly right).

    Of course, in Med2 there is a charge exploit that requires certain spatial relationships between the enemy's units, but if they are in the right position you can destroy their entire army with a few units of heavy cavalry.

    upload_2019-7-12_10-23-21.png

    You attack the unit behind the enemy's front unit, and if done right the cavalry will simply charge through the front unit until it's wiped out, then you can do the same again if there are more units lined up. I once destroyed a near-full-stack enemy army (all infantry) with 1 general's bodyguard and 3 feudal knights using this tactic, because they strung themselves out in a line while chasing me. So I just kept charging the unit behind the unit that was closest to my cavalry and went through their whole army that way.

    I do like to square my cavalry units because it makes changing direction to flank the enemy much easier.

    I agree with this entirely. The real problem for me isn't the combat malus per se but the slow movement making it difficult to get into proper charge position (and the charge itself being weaker).

    Sadly the Parthians don't seem to have access to lighter lancers than cataphracts.
     
  20. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Really? Is it actually 90% of armor, or just defense skill? I know they are a lot weaker when tired, but I didn't know it was that much.

    Oh yeah, I used to charge at enemies behind my target all the time. Brutal. Even better when you do that, get in melee, then order your cav to charge at yet another unit behind the enemy. Kind of ridiculous seeing a horse send five men flying straight up into the air from a standstill to an instant acceleration, but oh so deadly.

    Cataphracts are deciding arms; you really have to commit to the charge when you use them, but they're pretty brutal when they work.

    I believe there are some skills for generals and agents, and an army tradition and tech, that can drop mercenary upkeep if you're set on having mobile shock cavalry.
     

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