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What wonders are useful?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Disgustipated, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I know it's a bit late to be improving my game, but better late than never I suppose. I read in another thread someone mentioning the "wonder trap". I'm not entirely sure what he meant by that, maybe that no wonders are worth building? So that's why I ask here.

    For the record, I'm mainly asking about the Prince/King difficulty levels. I know the higher difficulties some wonders are impossible to build. I don't know how you guys ever manage to build Petra, even on Prince that's very difficult for me to build, and I've only got it a couple of times. The AI seems to prefer that one.

    I generally like happiness wonders since I always seem to struggle in happiness in the early to mid game (usually not late game). I try to build the Great library, but sometimes don't get it. I also like ones like Sistine Chapel, but sometimes I don't get that one either. I ignore many early wonders as they are so difficult to build, but mid game and late game wonders I try to build them all. I'm a wonder whore, I know. Should I just ignore all these wonders and build something else?

    As an add-on question, what are the best bonuses (pantheons/beliefs) to pick for your religion? I usually go for growth ones or maybe production, but I'm not sure if there's an agreed upon best religion belief to pick.
     
  2. phryxolydian

    phryxolydian Warlord

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    Ignore the Great Library, for starters. Yes, it may boost your early game but, if what you're trying to do is move up the ranks, it becomes increasingly less likely that you'll get it and it's not necessary to win. That's probably the "trap" you read about. While you are investing hammers on getting that you could be building workers, a granary, military units, etc etc; which would help you more, in the long run. If you are usually playing with Tradition then obviously the Hanging Gardens are very good for extra growth. ToA is also very good for that but, really, if you want to improve your game then rushing for wonders instead of working on more important aspects of the game isn't the way to go.

    As for pantheons, generally the ones that increase your faith or culture are better but, it really depends on the map and who your neighbors are. In a situation where Ethiopia is your neighbor then your religion probably won't be as strong as theirs so getting the best temporary benefit might be the way to go, like getting Sun God if you have a couple of wheat or something or even God King, if there isn't anything more interesting.
     
  3. meRlinX_AT

    meRlinX_AT JustMe

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    +
     
  4. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    ToA, LToP, and Sistine Chapel.
     
  5. Gushis

    Gushis Chieftain

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    Moreover, great library has supremely poor timing: just as you would settle a new city or get new buildings to build. Although a good wonder by itself, great library is bad considering the game. For good wonders early on, Oracle is very good, and Petra is actually OP if you have some desert. For religion, many desert civs make excellent use of desert folklore + happiness beliefs to allow rapid expansion.
     
  6. peterabc1995

    peterabc1995 Chieftain

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    I don't think Great Library is that useless. It's hard to build it in Emperor/Immortal/Deity difficulty level, but is useful in fact. You can get philosophy at less than 40t
    , and you can build National College after it
    , which will boost your science. It's more useful if you adopt liberty policy track. Collective Rule can let you produce settlers faster.
    Some wonders are really "trap", like Terra-cotta Army, Great Lighthouse and Angkor Wat.
     
  7. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    GL is probably the most powerful wonder in the game; if in single player the human succeeds in building it it amounts to the "I win" button when the human picks Philosophy and follows it up immediately with NC.
    The traps related to it are:
    1. It teaches nothing about how to win without it.
    2. As difficulty level increases, the starting terrain required to build it before the AI increases.
    3. As in all great wonders in Civ V, fail gold is rarely worth it. In the case of the GL, if you miss by one hammer it doesn't even provide enough cash to build the regular library.

    Petra though is the classic Civ V trap:
    The exact cities that look like they could benefit from it the most are those ones that are going to suffer from severe hammer shortage and so on high difficulty level fail.
    Currency is also not on the standard early to Philosophy and Education path; so it will slow down Universities. (Even on Prince it likely requires getting Currency very early compared to the standard tech path.)
    In addition, it only turns flat desert tiles into somewhat decent ones; it's the desert hills that become outstanding; so consequently you should count the number of desert hills within range would deciding the benefit.

    The lowest risk ones are those wonders that are on the path to Education; such as Oracle. And of course once you get a big tech lead you can build whichever one(s) you choose.
     
  8. peterabc1995

    peterabc1995 Chieftain

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    I don't understand why you said Currency is not on the path of Education. Currency is on the path of Civil Service and Civil Service is on the path of Education. If there's a city with more than 6 desert hills , I think it's worth to rush Currency and Petra.
    But if one adopt Tradition Policy track, Petra is maybe a "trap", as Currency is not on the path of Philosophy.
     
  9. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

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    So true, recent Immortal game as China, settled good capital spot on a hill, coast, river + next to mountain. To the west inland was a desert with 4-5 hills, not all hills near a river but there was marble in range of the city spot and the city itself was on a river so there were floodplains for food. Not ideal but I thought - 'Haven't tried for Petra in ages... this could work!'. Bought an extra worker and marble tile with gold and had three workers improving floodplains, mining hills etc. Ignoring Philosophy to get to currency first. Two turns to go... wooo - Immortal game am gonna get Petra!! 'Petra has been built in a foreign land' :(

    Probably by some dumb AI civ next to one desert floodplains tile.
     

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