Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Cade McCaslin, Aug 7, 2019.
She was my favorite leader in the base game and had such a cool effect that I want back.
IMHO Polynesia would be better off with it because it better suits their play style.
Though I don’t think we need the old “first player to find it super bonus” cause that was crazy.
I just want it for myself. I liked the mechanic and new spain is legitamatly the most boring civ in the game now whereas before it was the most interesting.
Also giving it to polynesia is a horrible idea as they can already cross oceans so they would have an unfair advantage, wereas spain still needs to rush embark technology (which is somewhat historically accurate). Also spains explorers spent a huge amount of time looking for el dorado, potosi, etc...
I'm not sure exactly why it was taken from them to start with. Guessing it was lost now that we no longer have the "first to find super bonus".
It's the downside of balancing the different civs I guess. Some of the aspects that made them interesting and unique have been chopped. (looking at you Denmark or the multiple UUs)
You can reactivate it. It’s still in the code.
the double yields from NWs and the rewards for discovering NWs and being the first to discover a NW can each be set individually
UPDATE Traits SET NaturalWonderFirstFinderGold = X WHERE Type = 'TRAIT_XXXXX';
UPDATE Traits SET NaturalWonderSubsequentFinderGold = X WHERE Type = 'TRAIT_XXXXX';
UPDATE Traits SET NaturalWonderYieldModifier = X WHERE Type = 'TRAIT_XXXXX';
UPDATE Traits SET NaturalWonderHappinessModifier = X WHERE Type = 'TRAIT_XXXXX';
An early natural wonder even on second or third city is really strong, with some of them borderline gamebreaking, double yields seriously breaks balance.
If I remember correctly it was just the one (gave 500 gold I think?) I believe the tales of it being game breaking was somewhat exaggerated. (Carthage gets this from settling a couple cities...)
There's also the fact that it's really situational. It can be a substantial early-game boost, or it can do stone nothing, based entirely on random chance. That's generally not a good place for a civ's UA. You can put it back in if you want, but I think for the majority of players, removing it and replacing it with something more consistent was the right call.
personally I think that spain being literally impossible to siege the moment they get a mission is much more game breaking than the wonders bonus, and incredibly boring. The wonder UA rewards discovery and was balanced well for true start maps because spain always gets gibralter to boost their otherwise trash early game. The only thing that makes it borderline op is the fact that community patch scouts are insane and can explore the entire map so quickly, however I reverted them to vanilla so it should be fine.
A UA bonus that is game breaking at its best and useless at its worst is not good game design. The range should be tighter.
And I say that with some fondness for the Vanilla Spain UA.
Eh? Missions are 3 CS and 10 HP stronger than a castle; how does this make them impossible to siege? I'm still taking cities with Comp. Bows at this stage of the game; if you're telling me you can't break Spain's missions with actual siege units, I gotta tell ya, I don't think the Missions are the problem. It's the Conquistadors you need to be concerned with; they will absolutely annihilate you. Second-best UU in VP even including 4UC, behind only the Inca's Slinger.
With regards to the double-wonder UA, I know my wife would absolutely love to see it make a comeback. Maybe we could harass @pineappledan into including it in 4UC and tying it to a national wonder or something so it's not blowing open the early game and can still be powerful?
Why would I do that? I gave him everything he needs to re-add the ability. I have also made mods that give Spain 2 additional unique components and one that completely reworks their UA to give them a 3rd option.
Cade should definitely play however he wants to play, but it's definitely not my place to do it for him.
I love ya Fruitdude, but I feel like sometimes you take things a tad too much to heart. It wasn't entirely serious; mostly just a bit of idle thought.
He could even swap the hacienda from the 4UC mod to be Spain's unique thingy instead of the mission. I do sympathize; I don't much care for the Mission's ability to pop up as soon as the resistance turns are over.
Separate names with a comma.