[BTS] What would you do with this start? Viking Immortal start. Huge map.

[sampsa]

@Berks

Spoiler :

I think settling on gold is sensible with T0 info, but killing the fish is a huge deal. For the ones who don't see SOG as reasonable, consider the following. Immediate +1+2pt, free up a riverside grass (a tile that replaces gold). That tile as cottaged starts at 23. Thus short term you are gaining a lot of speed from +1+2 and long term you are exchanging a +3+9 to +2+1+5 and that 5 goes up. To me the latter is not worse at all.

Comments on looking at the save

• you have a lot of roads, probably meaning one worker less was better
• Tonsberg should go granary first, it's double while lh is +1
• capital should have a library, settlers can be whipped elsewhere. Your main trump here is the capital but it lacks buildings
• as capital can't work all the , a helper 2S of pigs was probably necessary, means sheep city is also pushed 2S
• get myst to gift for Toku ASAP to get diplo points for OB
• cities beyond the peak are technically on the same landmass, which is good, as no colonial maintenance

My T100 save attached, have scouted a bit further so somewhat spoily

 

[Qactus]

On huge maps having a shrine is awesome. It's one of those things that scale really well with map size (more AI and cities, but same number of religions).
And on a huge water map it's not as easy as say on a standard size pangaea to just capture someone else's.
Therefore Oracle->CoL for example can be very rewarding for founding Confucianism and using the Oracle's GPPs to produce one prophet.
That said, I would prioritize GLH as well, but then I'd look at the religions and wonder dates and probably be willing to sacrifice some expansion to prioritize getting one next.

 

[sampsa]

On huge maps having a shrine is awesome

I haven't ever played huge maps, so what do I know, but are shrines really awesome? Yes, a lot better than on standard size, but I'd say there they are horrible. I think the main issue is the huge cost. Of course, if the religion is well spread and the game is very long it pays back nicely.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

As someone who only plays huge maps these days, I will agree that shrines get more awesome as the maps get bigger. On huge they can be worth game winning gpt.

Are they worth the beakers of chasing religious techs on huge, the hammers of missionaries, the extra cost of OR/hammers and time of monast, and wasting GPP on prophets (esp 300GPP on marathon? kiss goodbye to academy or early pacifism)? I would still say no.

A shrine is totally worth the sacrifice of a more sizeable stack than normal once issy has done the above hard work tho.

 

[krikav]

I imagine that on marathon, shrines are a huge deal better. (Probably more relevant than huge I think?) because there are so many more turns when you can get auto-spread of the religion, saving alot of hammers in missionaries.
The HoF guys almost certainly know if religion autospread is corrected for speed or not.
But I tried out getting early buddhism on a map somewhat recently and checked out religious autospread after that, and it's kind of neat early on really. You get your entire empire saturated with religion without having to do anything.
It's another thing that I have to learn to not dismiss out of hand. Will think about it more whenever I start with oasis or a +1c city center starting with a myst leader.

 

[sampsa]

Yep, getting to found an early religion without hurting overall development would be really good. I guess typically that would be judaism though.

 

[Qactus]

Yes, I was thinking auto-spread as well, not sinking hammers in missionaries. Religion spread is checked per turn (regardless of game speed) for each city and each religion. Cities must be connected via trade network (although no open borders are needed), which should be quickly established on a script such as Big&Small with sailing. The chance each turn depends on the proximity to the holy city (~10% if very close to it) and is doubled by the shrine.

 

[krikav]

The proximity is key. And thats why I got alot of Tao/Confu playing that Charly map that Lain is playing.
And that is also probably the reason why neither me nor Lain did get Hindu/Buddhism, because those holy cities where basically on the other side of the world.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Yes, I was thinking auto-spread as well, not sinking hammers in missionaries. Religion spread is checked per turn (regardless of game speed) for each city and each religion. Cities must be connected via trade network (although no open borders are needed), which should be quickly established on a script such as Big&Small with sailing. The chance each turn depends on the proximity to the holy city (~10% if very close to it) and is doubled by the shrine.

Does map size affect the proximity bonus in any way?

While early and fast religion autospread is undoubtably a huge benefit, a holy city is not a shrine. Given the maintenance costs of huge, giving up a GS bulb for an early GPro, and even just giving up the beakers the Scientists give along the way does still seem more of a lifestyle choice than an ideal play. Though since huge/long games are a bit of a lifestyle choice anyway, a Ramesses game is starting to sound tempting.

 

[Qactus]

Does map size affect the proximity bonus in any way?

Yes, the probability for a city to receive a religion is affected not directly by the distance to the holy city, but rather by that distance compared to the farthest possible distance on the map.
As a result, a city on Huge with a certain distance to the holy city will have ~1.5x the probability than a city with the same absolute distance on Standard.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Yes, the probability for a city to receive a religion is affected not directly by the distance to the holy city, but rather by that distance compared to the farthest possible distance on the map.
As a result, a city on Huge with a certain distance to the holy city will have ~1.5x the probability than a city with the same absolute distance on Standard.

Thank you! Does this mean a flat worldwrap would give you higher chances of local religion spread as well as the reduced maintenance? Or am I overthinking this.

 

[Gumbolt]

Map thouDownside of settle on gold is you don't have a coastal capital. If you settle in place or on marble it's a workboat opportunity. With 12 other Ai on this map you need to meet as many as possible as soon as possible.Timing this with alphabet and currency could be very important as there wil be sooo many techs/resources to trade. Making early alphabet very important. Especially to get OB with key ai. Currency to for GPT for techs. Trade routes with GLH are worth 3 commerce each.

Really don't think Oracle is great on this map now. Especially if you beeline BW and Ah too. You have to give up so much just to try and get it. Meanwhile fighting off soo many AI. Where GLH will be contested only by AI who start on coast.