What's bets : peace/cease-fire or continuous war

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bed, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Bed

    Bed Chieftain

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    I'am playing BTS, usual emperor/immortal player and one deity wins with (fin/phi) leader.

    Usualy when i make a war i try to destroy the civ (or vassalize it) in one shot, the war is fast at start but slow in the end due to healing turns. I am not sure my tactics is the best and i would want to be better at warieness.

    My question is : is it best to do a fast war to take a maximum of land/cities and make peace/cease-fire to heal or is it best to go till the end in one shot ?

    Pros and cons of stop then resume war :
    pros :
    * we can get techs or gold to make peace/cease-fire
    * we can heal units heavily damaged till fully health
    * we can redclare war and do a surprise attack
    * keep a city protected by heavily damaged units that would have been retaken if not at peace (it's the case in my actual game)
    * WW can be reduced that way ? (not sure on this)

    cons :
    * loose 10 turns while oponent can regroup and consolidate position
    * 10 turns is way too long to heal, 3 or 4 turns could be enough
    * units are immobilized for nothing


    Any thoughts on this ?
     
  2. kefka007

    kefka007 Chieftain

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    As with all things CIV, it's all dependent on your situation. I find the timing and purpose of the war to be the deciding factor as to whether or not to sue for peace. For ancient era wars (axe/chariot/whatever rushes) the goal is simple. I want his capital and I want his butt off the planet. No peace. Ever.:mad:

    For classical era wars, which usually means cats/swords/axes, I tend to go into espionage mode. I focus all EP on my victim not only for future city revolts, but also for tech stealing. I'll send my spies on tech stealing missions while building my troops. When I've stolen everything I can, he's of no use to me anymore.

    For later wars, I might sue for peace if the enemy has a lot of cities or if he has a tech I can really use right now (highly unlikely if he's getting his ass beat).

    Usually if I'm going to war I'm either going for a domination win, or I'm trying to clear my continent so I can tech peacefully to a space race win. I'm usually loathe to extort techs and give them a 10 turn reprieve when I could just steal them while at the same time making sure he never bothers me again.;)
     
  3. zombiestomp

    zombiestomp Chieftain

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    use the culture slider, go to the end in one shot. already\almost have theaters and/or colosseums. your research takes a hit.
     
  4. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

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    This is very situational, but I'm usually trying to fight one war per enemy.

    If you intend to vassalize an AI, fighting multiple wars with it is definitely not the way to go, as you'll get a diplomatic hit each time you declare war on him. So as a rule vassalizing attempts mean a) one war and b) no razing cities (you get diplo hits for those too).

    If you intend to wipe out the AI (or leave it with useless land and no more teching power) then yeah, you can start several wars with the additional purpose of getting techs for peace, but the first should still mean you've taken/razed most of his cities.

    Of course there are situations like yours where you end up conquering an indefensible city (few of your troops enter the city that turn, or they're all damaged); if you don't want to raze that city, and if you're not in the process of capturing other cities soon, you can take peace and regroup. Sometimes when I see that this is going to happen I delay taking that city until all my stacks are in place and I'm sure to take all the cities I want the next turn. Then I attack simultaneously, take the cities, and take peace.

    As for healing, getting super healers (Medic III or Woodsman III or a combination of Woodsman III and medics - see link in my signature) means you'll spend very little time healing your troops, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    I don't care much for a "second" surprise. It's hard to surprise the AI when you're already fighting inside his culture, as the newly conquered cities won't be able to push the cultural borders enough in 10 turns so that you'll be able to take new cities on turn 1 of the new war.

    WW does decrease during peacetime, but not fast enough that it would be noticeably smaller when you start the second war.
     
  5. fjordan

    fjordan Warlord

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    I think you forgot the most important con: the additional diplo hit with the friends of your target. And another: if you are planning to take capitulation in the end (I never feel like chasing the goverment to all crappy islands) you will have another -3 you decalred war to overcome.

    I agree with Corwin that you should solve the healing problem wit a super medic. Regarding the defense problem, don't take a city if you cannot defend it and bring overwhelming numbers.

    Sometimes though the war is too big a drain on the economy but usually I will not redeclare soon if that is the case.
     
  6. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

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    "emperor/immortal player and one deity wins with (fin/phi) leader"

    Under the conditions that you do not reload to get a good start, choose a map that favors you, and other weighted-to-the-player settings (conscious or unconcious fin/phil don't hurt) then maybe some should ask you the question.
    Conditions random or by taking the least favorable position (if possible -again unconscious- what you pretend to yourself you are weak at- you are actually strong at?) I would say war all the time- in one form or another - which would really mean running a Pyramid based shot (best taken - hard to build on higher levels but not impossible) running Police State and Aesthetic beeline for Zeus and Shadowayne (skipping the religious line altogether, keeping up in tech as best possible as cash will be an issue if you are not a simpering cottage builder).
    In short-"to go till the end in one shot" is the superior.

    "If there is one turn without an aggressive , expansive move then you have failed and deserve to die.."..from Attacko's Strategy Guide
     
  7. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

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    As long as you have forward momentum (which you should if you prepared for the war) then definitely finish in one hit. I also like to completely destroy my first victim - only capitulating enemies later.

    Sometimes a war turns into a war of attrition - and these are always better for me if I take a pause. The AI will ramp down from a war - resetting its production to peaceful uses. I on the other hand can ramp up. Sometimes a 10 turn pause has meant the difference between a grinding drawn out war that butchers my armies and getting back into a rapid assault again with cities falling quickly.

    Another reason for a 10 turn pause is if the war has gone on a while you may be close to a military tech that would make a decisive difference when you resumed the war.

    Otherwise I think the advantages of prosecuting the war as fast as possible and being done with it trump all the arguments for halting the war. War weariness won't drop much, you probably won't get free techs twice - so it doesn't matter when you take them and the diplo penalties are probably most important of all.
     
  8. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    If you just need a couple of turns to re-group/heal, do not use 10 turn peace treaty, just use a cease-fire "Let's stop this stupid war" and you can re-declare whenever you are ready.

    That is assume that you are already in an advantagous bargin situiation relative to your enemy.
     
  9. tempuraki

    tempuraki Warlord

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    I usually engage on-and-off warfare, since I usually invade with macemen, they last a long time so occasional pause is not a big issue. But you are right, the 10-turn wait is too long. that's why I usually just enter a cease fire agreement, no peace treaty.

    I cease fire when:
    - too much unhappiness even when culture >30%, while hoping to win a wonder/GP tech race in the next few turns.
    - need some time to heal/ran out of trebs.
    - sometimes after taking a city, I sent the remaining stack toward the next target, only to discover later that an enemy stack could overwhelm my defenders of the newly conquered city. ceasefire, try again next turn, with more defenders.
    - don't care about diplo hit. I usually attack before AIs on the other continents can befriend my enemy, so this is rarely an issue.

    I sign peace treaty only if:
    - good tech thrown in.
    - AI declared on me, and I am not ready to go on offense yet.
    - AI got new units that will make my invasion too difficult for now, like xbow to my maces.

    huge sum of money/gpt is not a good enough incentive for peace treaty. In those cases, I usually cease fire, then sell an old tech/extra resource to the AI to get the money, then re-declare when ready.
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    If nobody will care except the target (I.E. you won't run up "you declared war on our friend!" hits, do as ABCF suggests and hit and take cease fires. The AI is stupid and will likely make less units while you're healing this way.

    However, don't do that if it's going to wreck your diplo and prevent trades or get you dogpiled.

    WW is also much easier to deal with if you destroy their large offensive stack in your territory first, then go after their cities. If they don't have one, just bring enough units to make the war quick.

    A good K/D is favorable in a lot of respects, including WW, speed which the AI will take peace/capitulation, and hammer efficiency. Use siege and unit options wisely.
     
  11. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    You're much better than an AI at regrouping tactically (which only knows things like it hates you, it doesn't have as many units as it feels like having, some cities are under-garrisoned, etc.) On the other hand I think high level AIs still get upgrade discounts. Nonetheless they have little or no ability to assess when they need another military tech. I think they just sometimes feel like a nut and sometimes don't.
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I think that going ALL OUT is best. Preparing for war means that you should be able to have more than enough troops to last a full battle. The diplomatic hits you suffer from the declaring war on friends also hurts with the 10 turn peace treaties.

    And also, a civ could vassal to someone in the 10 turn peace treaty, so why risk letting them get that opportunity? Just have a continuous war.
     
  13. Bed

    Bed Chieftain

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    Thank you all for the good advices, i think i will sometimes use the cease-fire/peace tactics when diplomatic relation favors it.

    In the immortal game i am playing i was in war with lincoln who was best friend of my next target. i attacked him 3 or 4 turns ealier, took 3 cities (2 armies of trebs + rifles CR2 against longbows/maces) but didn't planned well my stack. After all your advices i decided to invade the 4th (puting the last rifle as city defender) and promptly signed a cease-fire to regroup and heal.
    I attacked him 3 turns later (downgrading my relation with spanish i planned to attack soon with my remaining army of CR2 rifle) and finished him off in some turns (took his 4 last cities).

    Worked perfectly :D

    At the moment after taking 3 spanish cities (2 on my continent and 1 on their continent) i signed a 10 turn peace treaty (they payed for it a bit), it will be well used to transport all my troops by galeons and will be used to resist their stack of doom who stopped 2 tiles from the capture city the turn i signed :eek:
    I hate warrying threw oceans, we lost lots of turn in transports and lots of hammers in protecting ships but the map was random (i play random map/leaders for more fun)
     
  14. Bed

    Bed Chieftain

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    Something like that happened during my won deity game : i was at war with egyptians (which i planned to destroy) and my next target (saladin) was also at war with them, they vassalized (capitulation) before i could finished them off.

    So it can happen even if you do continuous war :(
     
  15. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    if its against a civ which have few/no friends then go for the peace ... in a recent game i was playing with Gilly and had a long war precats with the mongols, which had no friends since they was the only one which wasn't part of the two main religius blocks on the continent (well ... i wasn't either but i didn't have a religion, so they didn't care that much about me) ... over three wars where i rushed and captured a town or three and declared peace afterwards i managed to first take the two chokepoints, and then horses and iron ... so now they're going to be fairly easy when i get to cats (rest of their towns are on hills or far out of the way :S) ... didn't get any penelties with either of the blocks due to them being on/off warring with the Mongols as well :p
     

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