what's sid's psychology about the bugs?

[nishant1911]

i mean is it part of the game design or something?
like making the player feel smart when they find the exploit or bug
(1 for each civ player)
it must have been a real genius's idea.

yeah i know,i know i could just go back to civ4 if i want
but i prefer whining

EDIT: meant to be in general discussion

 

[Ahriman]

There are very few bugs in this game.
If you think that bugs are voluntary or that releases can have zero bugs, then you know nothing about software development.

 

[Guardian_PL]

There are very few bugs in this game.
If you think that bugs are voluntary or that releases can have zero bugs, then you know nothing about software development.

Cool. I don't know anything about that either. Sooo, it's ok to sell unfinished product and let your customers be beta-testers for the next year, after which you sell an addon, which needs to be beta-tested again? Wow, I've learned something today.

If only the industry would say that on the box, instead of pretending that everything is sparkling... Something like "this is beta version, you can buy it if you want to play it now but experience stability issues, for the full version come back in a year's time" would be perfect

 

[r_rolo1]

I couldn't agree less with Ahriman. Sure, there aren't many performance bugs ( well, except maybe the bloating of saves with save/load cycles, the crash on 70 th city and the very doubtful "decision" of making Deluxe edition saves not loadable on Regular editions, even if with no Babylon in ), but the whole game reeks on improprer testing/rushed decisions/poor balance, and this without even getting close of the abyssal AI and doubtful taste decisions on what to include on the UI.

This also means that I don't agree with the OP. The bugs we have don't seem deliberate in their majority ( well, if you exclude stuff like not being able to improve a tile inside your land just because another civ scout decided to park there )

 

[Disgustipated]

I don't think the game is that buggy, it's just unfinished.

 

[r_rolo1]

I don't think the game is that buggy, it's just unfinished.

The line between bugged and unfinished is thin ... and IMHO Civ V as it is now is hovering very close of it. Just not sure in what side it is

 

[troytheface]

haven't encountered one yet

bugs and game breaking stuff and all the rest are just found out by hardcore civ players becuase they like numbers and crap

however, the question was "what is sid's psychology about bugs" which makes no sense.

People have psychology about bugs? Doubtful. But i will make one up for the sake of arguement, "my psychology (philosophy?) about bugs is that people make stuff that is flawed and even the best made thing like the pyramids is all eroded and crap"

in so far as the adolescent complaint about game makers being in it for the money...
of course, why would they be different then anyone else? they are in it for the pleasure of message board game players?

the evidence is clear- mini minds in the land of forever

 

[Isikien]

The point that everybody seems to be missing is that these aren't bugs, this game is merely half finished from a design perspective. If you're referring to hardware bugs then yes, that is a problem and that should be the priority for patching.

 

[r_rolo1]

Wait, how can a software have hardware bugs ?

 

[troytheface]

Stunex

the sentient code of horror

and why am i always in threads that rolo goes to

what is this, we like the same stupid threads or something?

 

[r_rolo1]

Probably

 

[Isikien]

Wait, how can a software have hardware bugs ?

Me layman computer user. Me not use correct terminology for production process of game.

 

[Asterix Rage]

There are very few bugs in this game.
If you think that bugs are voluntary or that releases can have zero bugs, then you know nothing about software development.

And you, what do you knows about software development ?

What you should know is that the software business is more important than software development.
Business boys too often decide the date of a release without any jugedments from programmers.

What you should know is that the acceptance of this very poor standard, make the business boy happy and the programmer useless.

Is it less difficult to build cars, flat screns TV, µProcessors, planes, buldings ? The answer is NO it's not

The difference is that if you buy a new a LCD watch what doesn't work, you make complains and bring it back to the retailer and ask for the refund.

Software development is truly difficult. And then ? Big focuses make big achievements

"Few bugs" is OK but a "non finished code" is a piss on my face i paid a fistful of bucks.

 

[Yakk]

It is more difficult to build microprocessors than many pieces of software. Howerver, there are a handful of types of microprocessors out there, and they have a huge market each. Niche microprocessors tend to be relatively simple in design relative to a previous bug-checked version, faster and better mainly due to process improvements.

Cars are more simple than the average computer game, especially if you compare the car to the previous version of the computer game. Cars cost 10,000$+ to manufacture, and a reasonably large percentage of that is development.

TVs are really simple. The expensive flat-screen TVs are an array of nearly identical parts controlled by a relatively simple computer and software on that computer. The complexity of a modern flat-screen TV is tiny compared to even a modest software project -- what makes TVs expensive is that they are harder to mass-produce than software is (software is really easy to mass-produce).

Complexity in modern flat-screen TVs is in the development of the two technologies (plasma and LCD) and manufacturing techniques thereof. The rest of the TV is simple dross in comparison. The "advanced" complex features of a TV (rescaling images, filtering out moire issues, color correction, etc) are tiny simple things compared to computer software.

Modern jetliners are pretty complex beasts, but cost millions a pop. Relatively small planes are simpler -- what makes them expensive is the difficulty in assembly, the risks of failure, and the like.

Building design is highly conservative. Most buildings are ridiculously simple in design, and over-engineered by many factors all over the place. Imagine a game running in a 30 pixel x 30 pixel window on a modern PC -- that is the margin of over design you get in many building components.

There are software companies who produce highly polished product. Blizzard's Starcraft games, for example -- these take a decade plus to develop, and even then they have a flurry of post-release patches. These products also amortize their costs over a larger number of consumers (ie, they have a huge fan base) -- 60$ times 100,000 people buys less development than 60$ over 10 million purchasers.

 

[Liquidated]

Needless to say, el Liq is loopy for irony.

....
however, the question was "what is sid's psychology about bugs" which makes no sense.
....
the evidence is clear- mini minds in the land of forever

I laughed, I cried, I too wondered about rolo's persistent proximity to troy's wonderful insights. Great minds in the land of the temporary.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[r_rolo1]

Hey, in this case it is troy's presistent proximity of my insights ( let's keep it humble and not put "wonderful" ) ... I posted first

 

[nishant1911]

i mean is it part of the game design or something?
like making the player feel smart when they find the exploit or bug
(1 for each civ player)
it must have been a real genius's idea.

this part right here was a joke.
this is just me whining about how much attention i gave to civ5 before its release and sid's talks of so called 'game psychology' .
only to be thoroughly disappointed.

you shouldn't expect much of anything i guess.

 

[r_rolo1]

Sid's insights on game psy that were vented before civ V got out could be surmissed in :

-Players don't understand odds. Sometimes they don't understand the actual concept of odds

-Players will atribute AI sucess to cheating and their own to their good play

-Players shun any negative event with fierceness enough to never play a game again if they find one. So the game must feel good.

-Players get scared if they see too much intel

In resume, players ( note that i haven't said some players, because Sid haven't said that either ) are dumb as a brick , even the buyers of strategy games .

To avoid further flaming, i must refrain of wondering about the mental sanity of a person that actually thinks that and at the same time tries to sell strategy games

 

[nishant1911]

-Players don't understand odds. Sometimes they don't understand the actual concept of odds

i've yet to find any such person. a person that knows why 99% odds are better than 97% has sufficient knowledge.

-Players shun any negative event with fierceness enough to never play a game again if they find one. So the game must feel good.

negative events occur in all kinds of games, like games that don't allow quicksaving. civ is already decent in this regard. people those are bothered by this -RELOAD.

-Players get scared if they see too much intel

so what if some get scared seeing too much info on the screen.
a expanded UI option will do the trick.

i am not advocating to change the game to suit a particular crowd. i (a casual player) merely want working and balanced gameplay (no rifleman before 200 BC ) and flexible enough to meet the need of 'all' kinds of crowds. no extra game options?
how hard it would have been it to program for a game option of future era with GDR?

also i simply fail to see how can they neglect the outcome of integrating a 'ruins weapon upgrade system' without any limit on the upgrade era.

A- "lets add a unit upgrade ability to ruins"
B- "COOL, this will give a nice 'bonus feeling' to the players"
now this where C should have come up
C-"but if somehow one got multiple of these types on same unit.wouldn't that break the game"

this was the first thing that came to my mind when i read it on arioch's site (i assumed they would have limited the upgrades on units). now either C didn't show up or other guys responded like this
"who the hell is this guy. did somebody ordered a pizza?"

i want my money back

 

[Olleus]

What does Sid have to do with Civ5 anyway? Absolutely nothing other than his name being on the box. If you want to play a game designed by him, go and fire up CivRev.