Whats so good about C3C?

[JoseM]

I read the thread: "Conquests features comprehensive survey" ... but after reading it, it doesnt make me feel like paying $30 for it... i mean, why didnt Firaxis added all that in the previous games? those things could be added in patches, are they gonna keep releasing new CDs for $30 adding stuff that can easily be added in patches for free? how much do we have to pay $200 to get all we wanted...no... all we SHOULD HAVE GOT in the first place?

They should do like Diablo2, they release patches with new and interesting items, stuff, etc.

 

[Dan]

Originally posted by JoseM
I read the thread: "Conquests features comprehensive survey" ... but after reading it, it doesnt make me feel like paying $30 for it... i mean, why didnt Firaxis added all this to the previous games? those things could be added in patches, are they gonna keep releasing new CDs for $30 adding stuff that can easily be added in patches for free? how much do we have to pay $200 to get all we wanted...no... all we SHOULD HAVE GOT in the first place?

They should do like Diablo2, they release patches with new and interesting items, stuff, etc.

yeah it would be nice if they released all the goodies in patches, but look at diablo ii, it took them like 2 years to get that 1.10 patch out.

What's good about conquests except the obvious new units/techs/civs:
- Easier multiplayer features (so I hear)
- Awesome single player Conquest scenarios
- more stuff to read about!!

 

[microbe]

I bet you that they held certain features just to release expansion packs

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by microbe
I bet you that they held certain features just to release expansion packs

yes, thats what i mean.

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by microbe
I bet you that they held certain features just to release expansion packs

Yeah, and they killed Kennedy, too.
Seriously, I don't think they're that machiavelic. Vanilla Civ was obviously a good game when it came out since a big lot of people bought it. It's only by extensively playing it that you come up with new ideas such as those that came in the C3C expansion. Granted, PTW had little interest (other than multiplayer), but the stuff there is in C3C is quite amazing, and would never qualify for a patch.
And since we speak of Diablo 2, this game got an extension, too, Lord of Darkness. So I'm not sure it can qualify as a standard

 

[Taé Shala]

I think it is okay to sell an expansion. I play Civ 3 since Nov 2001 and it is still fun. Compared to other games it is clearly worth more than the 40 EUR I paid.
I don´t think that all could have been released in patches. BTW I only have a modem so downloading huge files of hundreds of MB is as expensive as buying a CD.

Originally posted by JoseM
They should do like Diablo2, they release patches with new and interesting items, stuff, etc.

I still play Diablo II. It was becoming REAL good after the "Lord of destruction"- expansion. Two new classes, lots of items....
With the patches they released only new items and made changes on gameplay. (And made one of my highlevel Chars unplayable )

I am looking forward to C3C. I don´t have it because the mail has lost it .

 

[Grey Fox]

To release a lot of new feutures and stuff like the conquests, an expansion pack is needed. They can't release it for free, because then they would not have any pay, and then there would be no more games from Firaxis.

 

[microbe]

I agree Conquests need a lot of work and deserve an expansion pack. I just hope that they can from time to time release some "improvements" as a pacth, in addition to bug fixes. That would be cool (like more civs or wonders..)

 

[Capt Buttkick]

C3C, so far, has been worth every øre (we don't use dimes, pennies or nickles here ) I gave for it.
That said, I didn't buy PTW b/c I thought it looked a bit thin. It all depends on the amount of new material they put in there whether it should be an expansion or a patch imhso.

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by JoseM
? those things could be added in patches, are they gonna keep releasing new CDs for $30 adding stuff that can easily be added in patches for free?

Free for who? Oh, free for you. Not free for Firaxis. Firaxis is a small company that has to pay its workers to do things like make a patch. They spent two years after Civ3 was released working on the two expansions. I don't know how much they pay their workers, but my programmers cost thousands of dollars a week each. For a company like Firaxis, not having your programmers working on "The Next Big Thing" and instead working for two years on free patches seems like a way to not be around for long.

Oh, yeah, I remember paying $30 for an expansion to Diablo2 also and they didn't change it much till the last patch (two years later). Another difference is that Diablo2 was one of the biggest selling games ever (it is still on the top twenty sellers). This allows them to put more resources on their titles.

How much is $30 worth to you? To me this is less than what I spend in gas going to work each week. It is less than taking the family out to eat. It is way less than taking the family to a movie. YMMV, but any computer game that I actually play is a good deal at $30. I shelled out my money on the first day and haven't been the least bit disappointed.

 

[Civrules]

Hmm, I don't know about you, but I'd be a little "mad" (lets just say that) if I had to download a patch that could fill up a CD on my connection...

I do not get it. For PTW people said that it could be a patch and I said to myself "What are they thinking?" When I heard that this could still have been a patch, I literary laughed out loud. Like Warpstorm said, the programmers have to get paid. They also had to work on the expansions because some people were not completely satisfied with original Civ3. So, for two years they worked. I donno about you, but I'd be a little mad to make improvements on the AI, add multiplayer, all new Art (tons of it), all new abilities, and a lot more other stuff for free and not get paid for two years.

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by JoseM
I read the thread: "Conquests features comprehensive survey" ...

This thread was intended to gather the infos we were getting from previews and the little bits Firaxis would release bit after bit but it does not automatically all the things that are in and that are actually known since the C3C release so it gathers lots of infos but not all. I know since I made it

Besides I seriously doubt any company would release a patch that big (scenarios, new terrains, rules and units).

 

[Portuguese]

a patch with 700MB?

Well, they could have released it in Vanilla, or at least in PTW, or at least to distribute it for free if you prove you have bougth PTW, but... you know how economy works!

BTW, I just hope they do a patch with better AI

 

[kokoras]

If CIV3 wasn't so good from the first place then patches or expansions certainly would not be a problem,because there would not be any.But civ3 is just a great game and it has an unlimited number of developments.Sure,i also after the first year started to be unsatisfied only because i wanted more and more.Now releasing an expansion like Conquests(honestly i believe that this is the first real expansion since it includes PTW also,i did not buy PTW)in a patch does not make sence.Paying 30 euro once every 2-3 years for a game like this do not bother me at all.The only thing that i did not like much were the serius Bug problems.And i am saying that 'cause after a year or two of programing it doesn't make sence for me not to see and understand that there are some important problems in the game.For that i can only wait untill the patch/saviour is ready.

 

[Smidlee]

i always judge if a game worth it by the amount of time i play it . most shooter gets old fast (about only 10-15 hours of play) but i've put atleast 15 hours in conquest so far and loving ever minute of it while still got alot of hours left. this is one of the best expansions i ever bought. i guess you can't please everyone

 

[Smidlee]

mispost

 

[yoshi]

You still haven't answered the question, "What's so good about C3C?"

You have ranted on about the cost of driving to work compared with the cost of the expansion pack, the pros and cons of Diablo II, and the economics behind the creation of a patch (I see Atari has kept to the Civ3 tradition of releasing a patch shortly after release of the product --and that's WITH all the much talked-about play-testing), yet no one has mentioned the finer points concerning C3C. For instance, one of the big selling points as I see it was the fact that the long Single Player turns would be addressed --to a greater degree than they were in the PTW 1.27 patch.

Personally I could care less about the time and energy that was spent on the professional scenarios --although I can see the attraction for others.

What the so-called, "Improved AI?" From what I gather, there has been very little improvement to the AI, to the point that players now want it to be addressed AGAIN in a new patch.

And what about the Editor? Naturally one can't expect that to be a big selling point but it is a selling point nonetheless. Aside from Locked Alliances, what new options are there? Before release, players complained about not being able to set up diplomacy (just pre-setting an Alliance is not enough, players asked for similar settings to those found in Civ2's "Cheat" menu). Has that been addressed?

I haven't bought the expansion yet and have read nothing that has convinced me that C3C makes up for a significant number of Civ3's faults.

(What I have read are plenty of reviews that can't stop drooling over this fantastic addition to the sparkling Civ-series but that say next to nothing except how cool the new scenarios are and how Multiplayer still isn't what it's cracked up to be. Do I detect a pro-Civ3 bias? Some of these reveiewers are so CIV-fanatical that they make even the most fanatical Christian fundamentalist look like a toned-down version of Ned Flanders.)

In other words, enough about the bells and whistles and more on the technical aspects and most importantly, gameplay in the core (vanilla) game.


BTW, how many of the player requests actually made it into the add-on?

 

[warpstorm]

Okay, what's so good. I love the Middle Ages scenario. It's a lot of fun and I've replayed it 5 times already.

There are 11 other good Conquests included (not including the MP variants and gameplay variants)

The Epic game is a little more balanced and fleshed out, particularly in the Modern Era. I do like the new emphasis on exploration in the early game also.

The editor does add a few nice options:

Disasters
Locked Alliances
Flavor techs
Fog of War editor
Two new types of citizen traits (corruption fighting, and construction bonus)
Landmark Terrains (this lets you in effect create new terrains with some limitations)
Two new Civ traits (Seafaring and Agricultural)
New abilities that can be given to Techs (Permits Sacrifice, Bonus Tech, Reveal Map, no trade, flavor)
First Strike scenarios
New Government Flags (Xenophobic & Forced Resettlement)
New Improvement Flags (Double Sacrifice, Stealth Attack Barrier, Required Good With City Radius)
New flags for Wonders
(+ Ship Movement, Tourist Attraction, Requires Elite Naval Units, Increased Army Value)
Unit producing buildings
just to name a few

(I see Atari has kept to the Civ3 tradition of releasing a patch shortly after release of the product --and that's WITH all the much talked-about play-testing)

The patch is for the localized versions. The localization was done after the play test period.

Yes, there are still bugs. I'd like to see a patch for them.

BTW, how many of the player requests actually made it into the add-on?

Very many, actually (just not yours, yoshi ) Nearly every gameplay change came from player suggestions. Seriously, Breakaway worked very hard at getting things in. Some things were beyond the scope of what they could get done (for example there is no event scripting and Diplomacy is the same as ever). I don't think anyone who saw what was going on behind the scenes would say that Breakaway or Firaxis was slacking on this. There's only so many hours in a day.

If you dislike Civ3, this won't convert you. Knowing the things you disliked, you might not be happy with the expansion. I like it though. I've already gotten my moneys worth.

 

[Clown2TheLeft]

Yoshi, avoid this release; it is not for you unless you are a modder. That is the conclusion I have come to.

--The Clown to the Left

 

[warpstorm]

I would disagree with you, Clown. I think that anyone who wants to try some variations on game play will enjoy it, not just the modders out there. The scenarios will be the drawing point for most players. They are a lot of fun.

In addition, the changes to the epic game give it a better "feel", IMHO. Like I said earlier, exploration is more important. There is an Age of Sail. Modern combat is a little more detailed.

Did they turn it into Civ4, or even yoshi's perfect Civ3? No, or at least I doubt it, based on the types of changes yoshi proposed. At its heart it is still Civ3 (with some changes and enhancements)

I do think that most people who like Civ3 will enjoy the expansion.