What's the best way to undermine Siam?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by dayfax, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. dayfax

    dayfax Chieftain

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    Me: Babylon on Prince, large "Small Continents" map.

    I'm still working my way up the difficulty levels and getting used to the game. This last time, I did pretty well and I was in line to get a science victory but ...

    I overlooked the fact that Siam had so many CS allies. UN vote comes up. He needs 10 votes to win and gets .. 18! :sad:

    What's the best way to prevent this? Just try and horde money and buy out his alliances when someone builds the UN?
     
  2. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

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    Well the two obvious ways are either go to war with him and take his city states, or make a lot of money and buy his city states.

    Another way to do it is to bribe him or others into wars where the city state is near the warring civ. This often happens on continents where they will have CS allies surrounded by another civ that they cannot protect. This can easily take out a few city states. (for example I recently instigated a 3 way war between the 3 superpowers in my continents game, and 4 city states were taken in the first 4 turns).
     
  3. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    You have to beat him faster. If you let another civ build the UN, you didn't win fast enough.

    To speed up a Science victory, you need to do a few things:

    - Let the city-states rot and buy Research Agreements with your :c5gold:. The AI is extremely aggressive about buying city-states up in this patch, and the result is that you get poor return on investment on city-states after the first 100 turns.
    - Expand to city sites with two or more luxuries and resell excess luxuries aggressively. Don't expand to sites without luxuries unless they are in the top 1% of :c5production: sites that you have ever laid eyes on.
    - Get up to Education and Astronomy ASAP so that you can take Rationalism and build the Porcelain Tower to enhance RA power.
    - Learn to manipulate the median value of available techs to research to improve the efficiency of your RAs.
    - Build Universities and run Scientists as soon as they are available to generate a large store of Great Scientists.
    - Bulb the last six techs you need with Great Scientists, because it is impossible to efficiently research them with :c5science: or RA them.
    - Buy a Spaceship Factory in the city that limits your ability to build parts as soon as it is available.
    - Buy wars against anyone that starts threatening you with a win condition.

    If you move through the tech tree quickly enough, you shouldn't have to worry about trying to contest a Diplomatic victory in this patch, especially on Prince.
     
  4. Roghar

    Roghar Warlord

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    if siam is strong early in a game, start taking out city states
     
  5. Jalkaa

    Jalkaa Chieftain

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    This is Deity-advice to Prince players. I am a King/Emperor- level player but I find that we have a little more leeway than Immortal/Deity-players do.
    For example; AI-civs recieves great bonuses to production, science and gold on Deity. On Prince (and King/Emporer) the AI simply don`t have as much gold for your RA and Luxury all the time. If you monitor this a bit you can block the AI civs from making RA`s with eachother by intelligent deal-making. (I`ve discovered Infoaddict, a mod that almost make me feel like cheating). Keep a keen eye on Siam, and Make Rama`s money flow into your coffer and not to the CS.
    But Science is crucial. Writing and Philosophy should be a priority together with the lux-techs.Writing gives you libraries and Philosophy the National College (Still powerfull on Prince/King/Emperor). And remember the world wonders. Great Library (unlocks with Writing) gives you a tech, library AND 1 Great scientist-point. The Oracle also give you 1 GS-point. Very doable on Prince/King/Emperor, but not so on Deity. Hagia Sophia (Theology) speeds up the production of Great Persons and gives you a free GP, Which you can use to build The Porcelain Tower.
    If you are in front in science Civ V is at your feet
     
  6. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    Winning faster is good advice on all levels of play, not just Deity. The sooner you end the game, the less opportunity the AI has to beat you.

    Take gold per turn back from broke civs if you have to when selling. That's not ideal, since it tends to come back and bite you when you want to sign an RA, but often it's the best you can do.

    I forgot about managing AI civs' coffers on lower difficulty levels. You're absolutely correct that you want to ensure that there are never two civs that can simultaneously afford RAs. Take out loans if you have to in order to prevent that from happening; it's a total disaster when it does. It seriously impacts your ability to sign RAs and sell stuff.
     
  7. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    Simple advice: Be Siam. Or be Greece. Spain (natural wonder :c5gold: bonuses early) and Arabia (bazaar - sell your extra luxuries for cash) are good too, but require some luck. Patronage rules and can be a part of your science win, or a win all by itself. Don't let anyone run away with CSes.

    Patronage policies and city states are still an excellent way to build a strong base for your whole empire. They contribute reliable culture, food, military units, luxuries/happiness, and with later policies - science and great people. They also make outstanding barriers against invasion and beachheads for cross-continent invasions. The only negative is that they do suck up your gold, though this lessens over time.

    A nice trick that works on some AIs: Once you have the early Patronage policy that gives minimum 20 influence with all CSes - declare war on the civ that is competing for CSes with you. You will plummet to full red with their allies - and they will with your allies. After war ends, you bounce back to +20 in one turn, but chances are the AI won't. They don't tend to do Patronage, and they will be non-competitive for your CS allies for a long time.

    Plus, the new Patronage finisher will drop your CS competitor's influence faster, strengthening your hold on allies. So finish it out. The last couple policies will give you 5-8 great people and a bunch of extra happiness, and make it so you never have to worry about strategic resources again.
     
  8. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    easy way is to have their neighbour DoW them before the N. Elephants come into play. Depending on the neighbour, they may ruin Siam enough to stop them.

    Though... I just watched Siam actually take it's capital back from an AI civ (who also happened to have the Great Wall) many turns after losing it. They only had a desert city left, but kicked out some Stampy's and took their capital back :D

    So much fun in the new patch.
     
  9. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    You can use the diplo screens to see which policy trees the AIs are taking. If they don't show Patronage policies (or only show one) then you have a green light to fake war them for this purpose.
     
  10. Jalkaa

    Jalkaa Chieftain

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    Science victory; you don`t need every tech. Only the ones the that applies to the victory condition! (Those that give you the space parts.) I won an Emperor game this way. Played as India on an archipelago-map. The plan was to win culturally, but this has become more difficult with July-patch imo. Stayed on par with techs for a long time (Missed out on Porcelain Tower by two turns) Lagging in the end game, but not by far. Went straight for Space Ship, forgoing a lot of techs. May be more difficult on landbased maps.
     
  11. Unhappy Ood

    Unhappy Ood Chieftain

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    Conquer Siam before they get Elephants, otherwise extremely difficult to beat
     
  12. Roghar

    Roghar Warlord

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    yeah their elephants are a nightmare, puts them up with inca and japan as difficult to conquer
     

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