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What's the better Industrial Zone Replacement?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by AaronTBD, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    So far my impression is that hansa is better. oppidum is really nice as are the benefits it provides. My issue is with the placement rules for districts. Just in my first game alone, i had to settle several cities in weaker locations to compensate for it. Having weaker harbors, CH, and green districts is a lot to lose for a nice boost in the early game to production. They do not scale as well imo into the mid to late game.
     
  2. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    That's a "lucky" placement to be able to get those bonuses, sure, probably a little lucky.

    But for example, in my current Gaul game, in my first 4 cities, I can get I think a +4, a +5, and a +6 Oppidum, and I think the 4th one is probably another +4ish. That's good - certainly a much cheaper investment since none of those spots need another district, or a river/aqueduct spot or anything like that.

    But if I literally put 2 cities near each other, and build the Hansa/CH in a diamond shape, then right away, those are all +5 hansa spots without even considering being able to fit aqueducts, dams, or resources nearby. If a 3rd city can share, then you're easily getting up to some +7 or more locations, and none of those really need more than dropping a few pins down.

    Oppidums can get lucky - if you get a cluster of iron mines, that can easily give you a pretty huge base bonus, and as mentioned, its biggest bonuses are that it comes early and all its adjacency can be generated by builder charges. But you could also get an area where you can't get more than a +3 or +4 adjacency, and you can't even manufacture extra from those green districts.
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This is where I struggle. There does seem to be good adjacency I can get for them like 3 quarries, but when I go to place it I am thinking, should I be doing a campus or a CH or a theater first instead of this? How fast is my city going to grow so I can get other districts.
    This is where I have no worries with a Hanza because Germany get a freebie district.
    Also that good spot for an Oppudium happens to be on a grassland hill and that also makes me hesitate.
     
  4. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    It’s unusual to have a great spot to fit 4 cities, but 3 cities, which are just as good overall, is something that any non islands map is tripping over. Again, you can see examples in my IZ guide of what an aqueduct triangle setup looks like, but all that actually requires is a river that is not perfectly straight. And civ6 rivers are about as straight as a circle.
    This is for a run of the mill IZ. The Hansa can get the same benefit with much more flexible aqueduct placement.

    Again, you just have to know what to look for on the map; but unlike an oppidum, every map is covered in valid locations. My only gripe with the oppidum is I have to have quarries on the map to really get them juicing. Now if it had, say, +1 from camps, then we would be cooking with gas.
    By no means is it a bad district! It’s quite good. But I think the fact that it is much less defining for the Gauls than the Hansa is for Germany is quite telling. It’s also very hard to understate the free district slot Germany has; unlike the Gauls and Japan, they face a lot less pressure to get population up to take advantage of all their output potential.
     
    hhhhhh and 8housesofelixir like this.
  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, and the double adjacency card doesn't come until relatively much later in the tree also slows it down. If I could get an early +8 or +10 production from the district and a policy card, it's a no-brainer. And the way it's set up, you absolutely need to rush one of them to get the free tech for the mine boost, whereas Germany is more than free to wait to build if they have more pressing slots.
     
  6. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    You need to know that I did this planning for the setup provided. If there are, say niters or sugar in between, the setup can be adjusted. For example if the Dam tile is a niter, then the Hansas will be +9, +11, +11, +7 if you don't modify anything. But if in that case I put the dam on T and move the CH to K, then it will be +9, +11, +11, +10. Not bad huh?

    If you want this to be in your favor how about you pick two tile and add unremovable resources to it (or add one resource and remove that mountain which allows aqueduct). Let's see what adjacency we can get.
     
  7. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Sugar on S and I :lol:

    But that's beside the point. I've no doubt you'll come up with some decent +9's and call them better than Oppidums, and you'd be right. Nobody has contested that Hansas end up with higher production.

    It's the time it takes to set up, the favorable map conditions, and the land required. In this own example there's not only nowhere to put any good campuses, and nowhere nearby in any reasonable amount of time to set up any other Hansa clusters.
     
  8. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Well you need to do more exercises on clustering districts... With a filler district on B, D will be a +3 campus. With a filler district on Y, U will be a +3 campus. W is a bit hard, but if you put Government Plaza on V then it's again +3. Takes time to setup these +3 but by the time you have Rationalism it should be ready.

    And if there's sugar on S and I it can be tricky but now that you took the liberty of adding resources I'd take the liberty to settle on the sugars so we will still have good adjacency. :crazyeye:
     
  9. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

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    Fully agree, and hence why I wrote "An early Oppidum (even when strong) forces you to make a consideration of whether the production is worth it over a different district, and that's the part I dont like for Gaul."

    Germany has no such requirements and that lends well into the overall infrastructure development. Granted, going for the comm hub is usually a good idea to boost the other hansas, but if you're in need of something else you can plop it down immediately without worry.

    Too many if's and but's with that Oppidum, unfortunately.
     
  10. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    But the sugars are only 2 tiles apart!

    You also are talking 3x 7 pop cities and 1x pop 10 which will take even more time given you've covered your fertile floodplains with districts.

    Like I said, Hansas are great. They just take more time and more investment and so take even longer to pay themselves back.
     
  11. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    Just want to add to my own post (above) since I just realized this: Gallic theater districts do indeed get +2 from entertainment complexes, as well. I really do think the Oppidum should get its dam/aqueduct adjacency
     

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