Please excuse the provocing title. I am sure they are great but I find them difficult to utilize on that level. I am playing through all leaders on Immortal pangea, dont micro-manage every detail, but aim for a finish date before 1700 A.D. (which I usually meet when marble is around ) and recently started with Augustus. So I was wondering, why there is the opion, that Pretorians overrule everything? If I want to use them for an early rush, I need iron working. That means in most cases a serious delay. If there are no gems or gold nearby, the AIs around have bronze hooked up by the time I attack, and an aggressive axe is a serious problem for prets. Of course I could choke the AI and prevent it from getting metal, but this is nothing reserved for the romans. If I need catapults anyway, I could go with elephants as well. Besides, it means getting something like alpha, aesthetics or currency before or while attacking to prevent going bankrupt, is mandatory as well. So what are your experiences prets, attack dates, techs you research before starting the "rush"?