What's the point of the Stealth Fighter?

Enkidu Warrior

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Is it just a cheaper poorer Stealth Bomber? I never did understand it. It's worse at regular bombing missions than the conventional bomber, save for the marginally larger range. Is it really just the poor mans way to use precision bombing?
 
What's the point of it in RL?
 
Originally posted by Enkidu Warrior
Is it just a cheaper poorer Stealth Bomber? I never did understand it. It's worse at regular bombing missions than the conventional bomber, save for the marginally larger range. Is it really just the poor mans way to use precision bombing?

Stealth Fighters are good for air superiority, recon, long range, bombing, and precision bombing... the list goes on. Also with a group of about 8 of them, you can wreak some havoc. For example, have 2 of them perform recon, 2 more for air superiority, and the other 4 to bomb any targets spotted by recon. Fighters in general are more versatile then bombers plus they are cheaper, able to fly more missions such as recon and air superiority.
 
Do they really perform air superiority in Conquests? Civilopedia says they don't and they indeed never did that before.
 
I'm just getting to the stealth tech on my first epic since I got C3C, so I've been pondering military strategy for a late game domination victory push.

Obviously, the stealth bomber is devastating. If you have no shortage of shields, you cannot go wrong with building those. But, is the beefed up stealth fighter now useful, too?

Originally posted by Enkidu Warrior
Is it really just the poor mans way to use precision bombing?
The key question is value. For every expensive stealth bomber (240 shields) you can build twice as many stealth fighters (120), but which is the best investment? Even the poor man (poor in shields) most often will want to build fewer of the bombers if they are a better value per shield. They have most of the same abilities, except the fighter can do recon missions. The Civlopedia says the fighter cannot do air superiority - correct me if I'm wrong. Neither gets intercepted much, so attack/defense values don't mean much.

Therefore, it mainly comes down to bombing performance per shield invested. The bomber has a bombard/rate of fire of 18/3 and the half price fighter has 6/2. We can use the handy Binomial distribution to help figure out the expected hits and relative probabilities of a kill when each air unit attacks ground units of with a particular defense value and total hit points. Then, scaling expected hits and kills relative to shield costs helps to assess the efficiency of bombing with each type of air unit.

Except when defense values are very low (3 or lower), bombers do more hit point damage per shield than fighters.

However, things get more interesting when considering killing units, because multiple attacks might need to be made and extra hits from a bombing run are "wasted" once a ground unit is killed. Bombers are more prone to waste "attacks" than fighters, because 3 rather than 2 "attacks" must be made with each bombing run. Obviously, attacking a low defense unit with only 1 hit point left with a bomber is likely to be inefficient, because the kill will likely occur on the first attack and the next 2 will be wasted.

In terms of kills per shield, attacking with bombers is more efficient than attacking with fighters, except when:

1) Defenders have 2 or 4 HP and defense <4
2) Defenders have 1 HP and defense <18!

The first case is not surprising, because the even number of HP means that either 1 bomber attack is likely to be wasted (on the 2HP), or a second bomber will be needed to finish the job (on the 4HP). Thus, fighters can be more efficient than bombers when attacking veteran transports, but differences in efficiency were quite small.

The second case is potentially more interesting. If a previous attack leaves a ground unit with 1 HP, then fighters are more efficient in finishing them off up to the level of mech infantry (with no defense modifications). Here are the relative probabilities of a kill and the % increase in kills per shield for the fighter over the bomber for a variety of defense values.

___________Probability of Kill
Defense____Fighter_____Bomber______% Increase in Kills/Shield
2__________94%______99.9%________88%
6__________75%______98%__________52%
10_________61%______95%__________28%
12_________56%______94%__________19%
14_________51%______91%__________11%

Note that even though fighters are more more efficient per shield because the probability of having good luck is fairly high relative to the shield investment, using 2 fighter bombing runs in the place of 1 bomber run will still yield a lower overall chance of a kill. Thus, fighters can be efficient in picking off damaged units, but their success will be more variable and you can't count on them when getting a kill is critical.

So, what's it all mean??? Heck if I know! :crazyeye:

It might be handy to keep a few fighters around for recon duties and to efficiently finish off low defense units with 1 HP. Other than that, bombers typically should always be built despite higher shield costs. Fighters seem like they'd be particularly good for finishing off relatively low defence units (e.g., flak, mobile SAM) after those have been damaged by stealth bombers. Thus, a few stealth bombers/fighters could open the way for effective use of your massive fleet of regular bombers left over from industrial era wars. Don't city improvements and population have a defense value of 12? Fighters might be a slightly more efficient option if you wanted to precision bomb a civ back to the stone age, but this would require a large force that would have few other uses. Overall, there don't seem to be many compelling reasons to build more than a few stealth fighters . . .

I'm trying hard to find reasons to give stealth fighters a chance, because they look really cool!
;)

Can anyone come up with other reasons to build them?
 
Thanks for that, you confirmed what I had always suspected. I'd still build a few just because they look cool (at least I would if I had some Alluminium!).

I might have to make some changes. Giving them air superiority would be an obvious choice, but I don't want to replace the unit with an F-22 because the F-117A looks way cooler.
 
Originally posted by Shabbaman
I just checked the editor, and the intercept box is not toggled. So they can't intercept. FYI.
Thanks. So... so-called "fighter" which can't actually fight... except for defending itself, with bombard strength comparable to medieval cannon's :hmm:
I'd say worthless.

somateria: it sure looks cool :D
Other reasons? Hmm... for quick rebasing and disbanding in distant cities for shields, perhaps? ;)
 
In real life, it should upgrade to the Stealth Bomber.
 
in real life the F-117A stealth fighter cant attack or defend it can only drop 2 one ton laser-guided missles compared to the B-2 Stealth Bombers 40,000 pounds of precision guided munitions. But I agree with the stones fans idea to upgrade to stealth bomber. But heres another idea it would be cool if we could put tatical nukes in stealth bombers making it more realistic.
 
might be a little pointless to load nukes into bombers though.

Or maybe not... but why not just use a sub?
 
What we need is a modern age B1 type bomber that the regular bomber can upgrade to, increased range, firepower, but no stealth.

It would be nice to carry SRAMs (Short Range Attack Missiles) on the B1 and stealth bomber, these could have a range of 3-4, so you risk your plane getting in close to the city, and lose both the plane and the nuke if enemy tac air hits it. The SRAMS would be nuclear, and launch from a standoff position to increase the range of the bombers.

I don't see much of a need for the stealth fighter, I never build them. Why, when you can build stealth bombers instead? With the new bombard system, a good fleet of stealth bombers should be a killer asset to any offensive campaign.
 
also with 2 fighters, you can attack 2 units, so let's say you want to get a unit to 1hp [that's all you really need (for various reasons, 1) the AI retreats at yellow or red, 2)you want to get a unit promoted easily, or get a GL)] attacking with 1 SB would allow y5ou to attack a different unit later with the other SB you got
 
I would prefer an AWACKS than the Stealth fighter.I never use them because they seem useless to me(I build only Stealth bombers).But an Awacks could have a large operation range to perform the recon mision.I think that this would be tricky.
 
I would just mod them to bombard rating or 8.

With just that small difference, it's more cost effective to target units with 8 or less defense with 2 Stl. Fighters then Stl. Bombers.

And if it gets intercepted you lose just 120 shields, not 240.
 
I replaced the F-117A(the original, 'true' Stealth Fighter) with an F-22 Raptor and juiced up the fighter capabilities. I left it named Stealth Fighter, which isn't entirely inaccurate.
 
Originally posted by player1 fanatic
I would just mod them to bombard rating or 8.

With just that small difference, it's more cost effective to target units with 8 or less defense with 2 Stl. Fighters then Stl. Bombers.

And if it gets intercepted you lose just 120 shields, not 240.

yeah but still, stealth planes have a 5% chance of interseption, that is a very rare occurence of getting shot down, all advantages gained by the stealth bomber more than make up for the extra 120 shields spent

this raises the question, has anyone seen a stealth plane get shot down? (i'm sure it's happened)
 
this raises the question, has anyone seen a stealth plane get shot down? (i'm sure it's happened)

Oooooh yes... well, haven't played until modern in C3C yet, but in C3 and PTW I was shooting down stealth bombers like there's no tomorrow. I think the record was 8 stealth bombers in 8 consecutive attacks in the same turn... just put a lot (5+) of jet fighters in a city, and the stealth bombers drop like flies. Kind of felt bad for the AI losing enormous resources every turn.
Wait... nope, HE started the war damnit! :D
 
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