1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

What's the use of a machine gun?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Salil, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Salil

    Salil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    51
    Hello Friends,
    What is the use of a machine gun? It can't attack and the AI conveniently avoids spots that has a machine gun and proceeds to attack those tiles that has valuable improvements on them? I can't put a machine gun on each and every tile right. Would it work if I put machine guns on the border
     
  2. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,599
    Location:
    The Dreaming Spires
    The AI might be stupid enough to attack machine guns out in open country, but I don't find them much use either. Much as it is a cliche, it is quite true that in Civ the best defense is a strong offense. Machine guns are of some use for the AI when it holes itself up in cities, but I can't see them being any good except in a city that is under heavy attack.
     
  3. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    922
    What you do is put them where you know your opponent would like to attack in bulk and watch them mow down some units. Station some in border cities, and especially a city that it's obvious the AI wants to take. Keep one or two in with each of your armies to soak up counterattacks and keep your city raiders safe. When you capture a city, make sure to move the MGs in to catch any nearby troops that try to snag it back. They're not a unit that should ever be the bulk of your forces, but they're a very nice supporting unit.
     
  4. Salil

    Salil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    51
    So pantastic what you are saying is that with each military stack put a machine in it. So that when the stack is attacked the machine gun will retaliate.
     
  5. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    922
    Right, though you don't need to worry about putting one with little stacks like cavalry that are going to rush in to pillage or for a little group of 2-3 guys running around to clean up units. And you don't want to go overboard since they can only defend, I usually have 1-2 in each big stack which will have a total of 12-20 units altogether.
     
  6. ranger999

    ranger999 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    63
    Yup, machine guns are there to add variety to stacks and counter enemy units. THey are not intended for detached duty in enemy territory like cavalry or gunships. They should be stacked with at least one infantry unit since an enemy artillery or marines can seriously hurt MGs, unless your opponent lacks the tech for Artillery and Industrialization.

    From a unit class standpoint: Remember that machine guns are not Gunpowder, they are Siege (making them vulnerable to Artillery which has +50% vs Siege; Marines have special bonus also vs MGs). However this is useful in defending against those enemy Infantry/Rifleman units with Combat & Pinch promotions (since the Pinch promotion is useless against an MG). When defending a city or large stack that is subject to multiple enemy cavalry, infantry & cannons/artillery, it might be good to not have all your best defenders be the same class of unit. During this particular timeframe, I find enemy infantry with and without Pinch to be a major threat, especially after enemy cannons/artillery has softened your guys up and the odds are less lop-sided against them. Five grenadiers attacking you can cause serious harm if they are preceded by multiple suicide cannons, so it's not like your enemy even has to have Assembly Line! Having both Gunpowder & Siege class units do your defending instead of just Gunpowder units (because we all know Cavalry suck at defense) protects the stack. You could have just Artillery for your Siege-class defenders, but they don't get that massive +50% vs Gunpowder units that MGs get.
     
  7. Oddible

    Oddible signal / noise > 1

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    908
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I often drop a MG in allied cities that are under threat from a common enemy to help defend.
     
  8. The Keeper

    The Keeper Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Jackson TN
    Cheap defenders.
     
  9. Watiggi

    Watiggi Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,107
    Why was the MG classed as a seige unit? What was the logic behind it?
     
  10. Black Waltz

    Black Waltz Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    569
    Because "Siege" is a term used for keeping an enemy encampment of some kind encircled so they couldn't break out. That fits the machine gunner as his job is to sit and make sure that no other unit gets past. Think WWI.
     
  11. Vynd

    Vynd Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2001
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Detroit
    Well logically speaking it should be a gunpowder unit. Making it a gunpowder unit would defeat the purpose of the MG within this game, however, because then it would be vulnerable to exactly the same units and upgrades as other gunpowder units. Since the whole point of the MG is to be a counter to "anti-gunpowder" units they had to make it something else. Siege makes the most sense out of the other options. We're talking about World-War-One era heavy machine gun emplacements, which like siege weapons would be slow-moving and vulnerable to flanking attacks and the like.
     
  12. Smokey McDope

    Smokey McDope Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    134
    I gotta say, I never built a machine gun in single player games, but boy have they saved my ass in MP when someone else gets to assembly line before me and is pumping the infantry.
     
  13. Janus0

    Janus0 Zombie

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    The beauty of machine guns comes when you group them up with other units. Build whatever seige weapons you have access to at the time (cannon/artillery), get 3-4+ of them and put an MG in the stack. You then have 2 choices.. you can let the AI suicide on your MG, or you can murder them with the collateral damage.

    The other thing you can do with them is use them as improvment bulldozers. They kill things exceptionaly well for their cost, and 3 or 4 of them can destroy all the improvments in a city in good order. If the AI wants to stop you, he has to sacrifice expensive units to destroy your cheapo MGs, or he looses the ability to feed his city.
     
  14. bitterguy

    bitterguy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    san rafael, ca
    i just had a great use for machine guns in my last game. playing terra, i took a galleon of units over to the new world to take a barb city. the barbs were not happy about that and produced a steady stream of longbowmen from 3 other cities to try to get it back. they took me down to one grenadier which i upgraded to a machine gun as soon as i got railroad. that lone machine gun killed probably 15 longbowmen over the span of the 15 turns it took the galleon to go back and get some help, and city wasn't on a hill. granted the barb ai is pretty dumb, but that's a lot of dead bodies piling up from one unit. most times the barbs seem to be led by Capt. Zapp Brannigan of Futurama:

    "You see, killbots (machine guns) have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down."
     
  15. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    4,374
    Location:
    Iowa
    Although I have never gotten the chance to build a machine gun, I think you can benefit greatly from machine gun. For example, according to you, your enemy doesn't like to attack a machine gun. Cool! Why not put a machine gun in each of your stack?;) Now, you can go destroying their valuable improvements with ease.
     
  16. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Swamps of Houston
    The only problem with machine guns is that artillery gets a 50% bonus when attacking them.
     
  17. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    922
    Yes, it highlights that they're not a good solo unit, you want some infantry (or marines, who get +50% against artillery) stacked with them to counter that.
     
  18. Chamaedrys

    Chamaedrys Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,267
    Location:
    Germany
    I give a MG with combat1 and medic promotion to every of my attacking stacks. I also use them to defend my cities.
     
  19. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Swamps of Houston
    Yes, they are great to take along in your SOD. They are the coolest looking fighting action unit in the game, except for maybe gunships attacking pikes or elephants when they gore tanks.
     
  20. GABB

    GABB Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Barcelona, Venezuela
    They are excelent for pillage. I group teams of MG + Cav's.

    Move the Cav to a Town -> pillage it -> move MG there -> Stay alive at the next turn -> Pillage Village with the cav -> Pillage Hamlet with MG -> Stay alive at the next turn -> Move Cav to the next Town -> pillage it -> move MG there -> Stay alive at the next turn -> Pillage Village with the cav -> Pillage Hamlet with MG -> Stay alive at the next turn -> Repeat....

    Usually MG will resist some conuter-attacks and They will die but more counter-attackers will die too.

    I prefer pillage a "next Town" instead the same cottage because Tonw and Village receive bonus from civics and Techs however cottages not. Some of this groups can destroy your enemy's economy and you gain many gold, specially if your enemy is "cottage spammer".
     

Share This Page