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What's up with the low-food capitals?!?!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by futurehermit, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. yavoon

    yavoon King

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    720
    why not move?
     
  2. Littlelisa

    Littlelisa Warlord

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    Nov 13, 2005
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    I just had the opposite, my capital had almost no :hammers: (apart from 1 single hill)

    My neighbour was Genghis Khan on aggressive AI, so he Axe rushed me super early and i could hardly build any units for defence, was lucky i whipped some archers out with the insane amount of food i was generating :hammer:
     
  3. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    I count that as -13 (I think you are forgetting the +2 food from the capital). But it is still extremely rough no question about that!!!

    I moved my scout to clear some of the fog, but it is still not always possible to see every tile in the BFC the first turn. So, I settled in place hoping that 1-3 food sources would be revealed. Alas, it was not to be the case.
     
  4. Steve3000

    Steve3000 Chieftain

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    Location:
    Ancient Rome
    What do you mean "the low food capital that you got"? Those settlers move you know.
     
  5. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Of course they can move, but you have to make a decision: Do you waste multiple turns exploring all the fog around you to see if it is a good spot, or do you settle in place assuming that there are 1-3 food tiles in the spots you can't see???

    In Warlords I NEVER got capitals with the low food I've been getting in BtS.

    And I am not the only one who is getting them--the AI is also getting them! So, when I conquer enemy capitals thinking they will be solid GPFarms (one of my fav strategies) or commerce centers I am finding they are limited to production centers.

    My hunch is that the low-food capitals are slowing down the AI as well!
     
  6. Soneji

    Soneji Prince and Great Steward

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    Location:
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    I refuse to move my settler from its starting position.

    If you do, you lose a turn of research at the very start.

    If you are beelining for a religion, this is not a smart move.
     
  7. Mehmed II

    Mehmed II Ottoman Empire

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
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    Location:
    Finland
    That's true, Hempishperes is very "foody" map.
     
  8. Landstander

    Landstander Warlord

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    Feb 21, 2006
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    217
    I was sick and tired of getting crappy food starts - and I was trying to play on Prince, which in BtS is pretty competetive for me. So I got a 'decent' start and decided to save and explore before commiting. I found a PERFECT spot about 4 turns (thanks to a lot of forest) from my Settler's start spot.

    So I reloaded and headed straught for that spot, and founded my capitol. 4 turns later than everyone else. Luckily, I had landed close to the Greeks, who got Warrior rushed. Cheap? Yeah. Cheating? Basically. But it's the early ADs and I'm still competitive, despite the four turns of research loss!
     
  9. Soneji

    Soneji Prince and Great Steward

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    Were you heading for a religion straight away?

    Because if you were, I guarantee those four turns would have cost you Buddism.
     
  10. mrhyms

    mrhyms Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
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    Location:
    Nottingham
    Call me a cheater, but my usual approach is to use any starting units I have to scout out a screens worth of tiles, then reload my autosave from turn one and place my captal in the best spot. I think it's worth losing (at most) 2 turns of movement in order to claim an extra resource or two in your cap.

    Its probably not the most sporting option, but I have never regenned a single map - part of the joy of this game is the randomness. If I still have no decent starting location after a bit of scouting i'll just make the best of what is available.

    If you're going to just keep regenning maps until you can get a flying start then why not just use the Worldbuilder??
     
  11. Landstander

    Landstander Warlord

    Joined:
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    I MIRACULOUSLY got Hinduism. I think I was one of two Spiritual civs – so I was simply very lucky.

    Worldbuilder ruins it for me. I will "take what I get" with the rest of the map, but I basically insist on an above average start spot. I would prefer the rest of the map to be a mystery - and I certainly don't want to know if I have Coal, Iron etc in range.
    I just prefer to play with a strong capitol. A handful of Regens is worth it to me.
     
  12. whiplash_CDC

    whiplash_CDC King

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    There is no doubt that the map generator has changed for BtS. If you don't believe it just play around regenerating maps and I'm sure you will be convinced.

    Start locations are heavily wooded; often every tile around the start square is a forest.

    Flood plain tiles are rare; it may take 20 regens to see one.

    I also think all resources are more scarce than in warlords except ivory.
     
  13. mrhyms

    mrhyms Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Fair comment - I forgot the WB showed the hidden resources as well!

    I've noticed in vanilla Civ4 (watching the after game replays) that the AI civs sometimes take 3-4 turns before founding their capital - anyone know if this is still the case in BTS?
     
  14. yavoon

    yavoon King

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    I play on epic and I almost always waste the turns to see. I assume if u play on marathon it just has to be worth it to scout out surrounding area.
     
  15. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    I play on normal. Every turn is very costly!!!

    This has been my experience as well. So now I chop chop chop workers and settlers early. But I still wish the capitals weren't QUITE so low food. If I have to be working grassland farms to grow that is unacceptable in a capital imho. You would fall quickly behind anyone else who had 1+ good food sources.
     
  16. Landstander

    Landstander Warlord

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    How about a "resource-heavy start position" option? Save me a lot of regenerations on harder difficulties (what can I say, Monarch is scary and I want me some floodplains and Corn!)
     
  17. MisterBarca

    MisterBarca Prince

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    Therein lies your problem.
     
  18. rabidveggie

    rabidveggie King

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    I'd rather a likely 13 pop max capital with lots of woods early on to chop rush with, then a capital that makes it too 20... for my opponent to profit off of since by then I'd be long dead.
     
  19. Steve3000

    Steve3000 Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Hmm. I almost always spend 4 or 5 turns looking for a good spot for my capital. I've never really had a problem with the computer getting ahead of me on Monarch level.
     
  20. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    Why should I have to suffer because I choose a specific game setting? Marathon for example makes it too easy for the human player because it gives a warfare advantage which the human player is better at.

    Plus Marathon games take way too long to finish :lol:

    Sure you can take "x" number of turns to explore the land around you but that is "x" number of turns you will end up losing.

    I don't mind moving 1-2 turns if it means I start on a plains hammer and get a gold pit in my bfc, but "wasting" 1-2 turns just to make sure I have sufficient food doesn't appeal to me.
     

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