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What's with the AI's love affair with Art's Funding?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Atinuviel, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. Atinuviel

    Atinuviel Chieftain

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    It just seems strange that the GWAMs, which are really only necessary in large amount for culture victories, are loved by the AIs so frequently. The last few games I played I see pretty much Art's Funding put to the proposition on the second or even the first World Congress. I'll get hated on by everyone if I even so much as mention Science Funding.

    I guess it's the same reason that the AIs choose Piety and Aesthetic so much while Rationalism so rarely. They must really like their arts.
     
  2. nightspydk

    nightspydk Chieftain

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    Are you sure. Not my experience and rarely I've seen the specialists allocated either. Hmm.. :p

    Culture is very important imo. :)

    Agree about the other and piety is useless later on. Aesthetics is not!

    I play to win just about it all except space race...

    I do have a problem with the whole world congress mechanics. I have found to win it's often best to not engage to much in the voting and submit the most insignificant proposals. If I could submit nothing I would have done that many times. Voted blank many times. That is if you want to stay friends with the ai as much as possible and not have to engage in projects that just slows you down etc..
    It concerns the victory in the end. Maybe it depends on play styles.
    Big dissapointment imo and hope it gets re-worked. :)
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    I think it depends on the style you play as. I've always found the world congress to be very useful. You can embargo enemy civs, propose the world projects which are amazing, and make your people content with 0 tourism. I really like getting city states though, so I've had more times when it is a natural extension of my playstyle.
     
  4. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    AI is super-obsessed w/Art Funding in all of my pre-beta games. in the minority of games where an AI wouldn't propose Art Funding themselves, if i just look at Science Funding and see who would be angry about proposing it, the answer is always virtually everyone.
     
  5. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Concur. In every single one of my BNW games, regardless of difficulty level, every AI civ wants arts funding and none, or in rare instances one, wants science funding. I dislike it as it makes World Congress and AI strategies so predictable.
     
  6. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    It's pretty bizarre when you've got guys like Sejong who are obviously going for space victory still turning their noses up at science funding.
     
  7. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    Its because if you look how the AI calculates its grand strategy science is usually a last resort when they can't do anything else. So the AI is more likely going for cultural early on, making them more likely to like the policy. Science will be preferred in the information era and alter, which is unfortunate, since its probably too late for them by then.
     
  8. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

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    The leaders should just have set preferences for either sciences funding, arts funding, or or neither. I'm just irritated at the irony of being attacked diplomatically by Germany for supporting a resolution that would offer patronage to engineers and scientists.

    Set preferences just makes the most sense. Germany will never win a cultural victory anyway, so why have them ever vote for it? Besides, Scientists and Engineers are useful for all victory types, not just a single one, unlike arts funding.

    Civs like Polynesia, the Celts, Brazil, or France should just have a flat out preference to Arts Funding.
    Civs like the Zulus, the Shoshone or China might not have a set preference, or maybe could have a more malleable one.
    Civs like Babylon, Venice, Korea or Greece that have merchants, engineers or scientists central to their strategy should prefer sciences funding.

    In the status quo it is pretty much impossible to ever pass sciences funding, especially since half the civs in the game will treat it like some sort of diplomatic incident. With this system, arts and sciences funding become equally viable.
     
  9. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    This is also my experience. However, in my current (beta patch) game, there is a 4-2 split between Arts Funding (4) and Science Funding (2). While this is still more for Arts, I think 2 for Science Funding is more than I have seen in all of my BnW games combined before the patch. :lol: Wonder if its just coincidence, or actual change? The ones in favor of Science were Sejong and ... Bluetooth? ... if memory serves me.
     
  10. nightspydk

    nightspydk Chieftain

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    You are prolly right. I've also usually gotten a hell of a lot of allied CS, but also relied heavily on research agreements, so keeping friendly with the ai is a must. Most proposals deal with sanctions, there are not to much dealing with the opposite if possible.

    Btw artists are useful no matter what kind of victory you are going for as well. :)
     
  11. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Arts Funding doesn't just increase the rate of artist generation, it decreases the rate of science/engineer/merchant generation. Not the best thing for Nebby or Enrico yet they still seem to enjoy going for it.
     
  12. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I don't see how set choices is beneficial. Making the AI be less adaptive is NEVER a good thing. You just need to change their logic slightly. Right now science is literally the last attempt to win. Its basically like " Well I can't win this or this way...well guess I will do science" Because of this AI logic the AI never wants to go with science funding, which it considers for science victory, because its not going for that victory.

    It should be slightly modified so certain civs with a science bias will have that victory condition preference from the beginning of the game, not once they are in the information era.

    Try waiting until information era or so to get a vote on science funding. All of a sudden it will be favored.
     
  13. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    Civs should start looking at whether or not Science is an option in the late Renaissance, really. Hell it could even be the default that they go for and just pick another one if the opportunity arises, since that's pretty much how the game works.
     
  14. JanghanHong

    JanghanHong Enrico Trololo

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    I've noticed that by the time I can suggest this at the World Congress, I've popped out so many scientists that I'm just buying them now. While I need the GWAMS to just prevent runaway culture civs from getting influential with me.
     
  15. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    I find both options to be rather uninspiring. You are going to be working both regardless, so there is no choice upon the player. I suppose the idea is if you are going for a CV, it slows down a potential SV snipe and vise versa, but it doesn't seem to play out that way in the game. Slowing down GS generation slows down all victories (Internet slower) and slowing down GWAM's won't particularly hurt a CV strategy. Each work is only 2 tourism where as things like Eiffel and faith-purchasing late-game musicians are going to have way more impact than losing out on one or two great works.

    Both are empty choices and don't really offer any change in strategy.
     
  16. Vidszhite

    Vidszhite Ya Girl Juniper & Friends

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    On Deity, Arts Funding is CRUCIAL for keeping the AI out of Science Victory if you're not going SV yourself. Without it, they can threaten it in the 1800s. Slowing down GS doesn't harm the player as much as it does the AI, because the majority of your techs will come from tech stealing, which is unaffected by arts funding. They can be in Renaissance when you're still in Classical, so it's a much larger part of the game the higher you go.

    That said, since the beta patch, it seems like more AI go for sciences funding, even in the renaissance.
     
  17. Syntax Error

    Syntax Error Prince

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    My latest game, I was Poland on Emperor, Standard Pangaea. Because of my enormous lead, I managed to pass the Science Funding. The whole world (the ones that mattered, anyway) was against it. It passed (due to enormous lead), while at the same time, Arts funding gets enacted. It was a weird game. My first proposal was World's Fair, and on the turn I won it, I got a natural Golden Age, Taj Mahal (because Emperor) AND an Artist. Needless to say I blasted through the SP's in those 20 turns. Launched the Ship on turn 289 (no RA's were signed) and had I bought the the CSes the turn before, I would have also been World Leader in addition to colonizing Alpha Centauri.
     
  18. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    I had a computer propose science funding once! The rest of the world was against it, but I pushed it through! It was amazing! It was kind of funny because this computer didn't like me, so I was expecting him to propose something terrible, but when I saw this proposal I got very happy. Science funding and the ISS passed in this world congress (I controlled the congress), which was awesome for me, as I was getting close to a space ship at the time.

    Still though, yeah. I would like to see more of a general even split in that regard. Computers pushed up their science habits in the patch though, so maybe this will change things and get them to be more open to the sciences.
     
  19. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

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    AI strategy paths usually flawor culture and start favouring science lategame. I should be more compensed, but at it is now, 90% will lead to arts funding.
     

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