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[R&F] Whats your favorite Rise and Fall Leader or Civ?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Harun-al Rashid (Arabia), Feb 10, 2018.

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Whats your favorite?

  1. Lautaro

    17 vote(s)
    8.8%
  2. Robert the Bruce

    25 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. Poundmaker

    57 vote(s)
    29.5%
  4. Chandragupta

    4 vote(s)
    2.1%
  5. Genghis Khan

    17 vote(s)
    8.8%
  6. Seondoek

    15 vote(s)
    7.8%
  7. Shaka

    15 vote(s)
    7.8%
  8. Wilhelmina

    15 vote(s)
    7.8%
  9. Tamar

    28 vote(s)
    14.5%
  1. psychoneirik

    psychoneirik Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    20
    Why no love to our second alternate leader? I really like Chandragupta, I used to play Gandhi as a warmonger all the time because his elephants are great and his stepwells help your newly conquered cities to grow fast. Early territorial expansion wars are fun against the AI but I think its useless in MP because everyone declares war on you as soon as they meet you.
     
  2. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    Poundmaker to me doesn't seem to have strong bonuses. I suspect though it has something to do with maintaining alliances???
     
  3. Portinou

    Portinou Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brussels
    As mentioned above, the combo Mekewah (+1 housing AND production), land grabbing and early boosted internal trade routes (2 camps 2 pastures, Magnus and a campus mean +8 food!) make it super strong for fast growth. If played knowing what you do, you can exert massive loyalty pressure and start expanding peacefully.

    The alliance system is not his real feature.
     
  4. Ezumiyr

    Ezumiyr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    99
    Chandragupta. He's the only one who understands me and my habit to raze all the cities in this expansion.
     
    Japper007 likes this.
  5. GermanSettler

    GermanSettler Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Germany
    I have only tried Wilhelmina and Poundmaker so far. Poundmaker was a lot of fun... with Wilhelmina I think I simply did not expand swiftly enough and I am now cornered into a peninsula. SO it is not her fault that the other game has been much more enjoyable. But Pundmakers early scouts were a lot of fun, as well as the trader culture bomb.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  6. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    I finished a game with Mongolia earlier today, and it was fun, but I found Shaka more fun. Shaka's +3/+5 loyalty per turn on garrison is very useful in keeping cities from flipping. In case of Mongolia I think it's more of a strategy of razing every city you come across.

    Chandragupta would be interesting, but again probably a razing kind of guy in order to ensure loyalty.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  7. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,298
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Vermont
    How awesome would it have been if the Scots fought in LotR, and played 'Scots Wha Hae.' The orc reaction would have been great. "Run brethren, run!" War drums are overrated.
     
    cairnsy44 likes this.
  8. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,037
    Location:
    Toronto
    Finished a game as Poundmaker, and agreed that he's a lot of fun. Mekewaps are up there as one my favorite UI now - they're essentially an early mine that you can place on almost any tiles, plus gives housing. Was getting all my cities to size 10+, even got one to size 20, without ever building a sewer or neighbourhood. I was getting tons of food/production that every city was growing fast, which also gave them enough production to actually hard-build districts and buildings late-game. I'd capture a city size 4 from the AI, it would quickly grow up to size 7 or 8, and it was building universities in about 10 turns.
    Combined with super-trade routes - I had one city with 5 camp/pastures, which means my trade routes to that city were giving me something like 7f/3p/5g counting the receiving city, it really makes cities just jump. Although a lot of what went well with the game was spreading my religion with Choral Music to give me a ton of culture, having a couple religious city-states to give me even more faith, and then later on a Great Zimbabwe that was giving me about 20 gold each for internal trade routes with the great people and policy cards... Also helped that I had 4 straight golden ages (although I only had 1 turn of the last one, despite having about 100 era points more than needed for it...)

    I never tested his alliance bonuses, and the strong scout, while nice, wasn't really a huge deal. I don't think he's necessarily the strongest, but I do like having strong tiles and a fun little mechanism for expanding your empire with trade routes, so it was definitely a fun game overall. Excited to try others out.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  9. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,093
    Yeah. The UU was less cool than I was hoping but the early big cities is way better.
     
  10. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    I don't have the experience playing with all of them (only Wilhemina so far) to vote - only against them - but I do like the Dutch a lot. Early huge adjacency bonuses are great in themselves but also work nicely to bolster era score (it's very easy to get the placement era score bonus as the Dutch), and the frigate is good despite its ahistorical name (a whole type of ship named after a single 17th Century vessel. While there is apparently a De Zeven Provincien-class frigate, that's a 21st Century vessel). While the Dutch seem overtly best-suited for culture victory (with both adjacency and trade bonuses to culture) getting the adjacency boost for both science and production (though, weirdly, not for commerce) makes them a good all-rounder civ.

    On the downside the trade bonuses aren't that relevant, though the slight loyalty push may help with forward settling, and polders' placement requirements seem to make them awkward. Both hit the mark very well thematically - especially loyalty from trade routes (even if it's a stretch to consider radio broadcasts trade routes...), but could probably be given tighter gameplay. Culture bombs for harbors are barely relevant since by their nature you're pretty much always just getting sea tiles (indeed most of my cities in my current game have harbors - I'm in a situation where their adjacency bonus is better than commercial hubs and the way the shipyard now works makes that very good - and I've never yet registered the culture bomb), but again it's a nice flavour touch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  11. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,091
    It will be the dutch if FIraxis rebalances the polder tile requirements to be reasonable, instead of way too harsh like they are now.

    As it stands currently, of the four R&F civs I've played (Dutch, Georgia, Zulu, Korea) I'll probably say Korea closely followed by Georgia.
     
    Japper007 likes this.
  12. nitedemon

    nitedemon Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Why do you have to raze every city you come across though ? Mongols are fast , you only need one or two governor to slow down the flip of the first two cities, then as you conquer more, the loyalty from conquered cities will soon be self maintainable

     
  13. Kataklysm

    Kataklysm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Quebec
    In the process of finishing, and probably not winning my first game (standard, Emperor) with Wilhelmina. Trade routes loyalty and culture bonus seem ok but not a gamechanger. Polders seemed quite 'meh' but in the later ages they bonify and make for great tiles (like, 3 food, 3 prod 5 gold). The Zeven Provincen ship is fantastic.River adjacency bonuses are ok too. In the end, I think that the Netherlands don't have extremely strong bonuses taken individually, but the sum of it all, if exploiting shoreline and harbors correctly, can make them a ca$h powerhouse and true naval menace.

    Looking forward to trying Poundie and Genghis!
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  14. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
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    5,020
    That's actually what I like about them - they're a nicely-designed civ thematically and can be deceptively strong (+2 bonuses for each early district can lead to snowballs) but they aren't among the intrinsically strongest civs and they reward a specific play style that makes thematic sense for the Dutch without being a one-note civ with a stereotyped victory condition (unlike, say, Korea).
     
  15. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    I've only tried Georgia so far and they're really good. Their bonuses synergize really well if you know how to use them.

    > Mountains start => tons of faith which is doubled by a Liberation War which you can easily declare since you'll be swarming nearly City States with Envoys.
    > Because you start in the mountains, Science is not a problem since +3 Campuses are common (and a reliable source of Era Score)
    > Beeline Recorded History, Magnus-rush the Great Library and get the dedication bonus for Eureka's to prolong your Golden Age as you set up you religion. (The Eureka's from the GL do count towards Era Score if you have made that dedication, in addition to the +3 from building the GL itself)
    > Once you've done the GL slingshot and have either set up your religion or converted to the nearest one, pick up the dedication bonus that gives +2 era score for conversion missionaries and extra religious charges for a perpetual Golden Age. Easiest way is to build the Ancestral Hall and REX.
    > Combine with Theocracy and that Government Building which allows you to buy units with Faith for max devastation, regardless of whether you've founded one yourself or not.
    > Khevsurs are cheap and useful with you hilly starting terrain.
    > Production isn't an issue either, plenty of hills to mine. Use that to churn out Endgame Wonders for Tourism (synergizes with the Tsikhe and Holy Sites, which are reliable sources of Tourism) and bonus Era Score. Taj Mahal and Ruhr Valley should be top priorities, for obvious reasons.

    Not sure if they're Deity-friendly, but on King they're potent enough.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  16. ZeroSuitSenpai

    ZeroSuitSenpai Warlord

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    Gender:
    Male
    I love city states so Tamar for me :)
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  17. kzcosme

    kzcosme Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Poundmaker so far!
     
  18. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,810
    Location:
    Abroad
    Poundmaker is fun because of the early start bonuses (Scouts, land grab from trade routes, and production boost). I'm still not a huge fan of their overall bonus kit, but it's nice to have so many early bonuses (Nubia is also fun in that regard).
     
  19. Formersd

    Formersd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
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    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San DIego
    I've played Poundmaker, Lautaro to completion and about halfway through a game with Shaka. So far, I was impressed with both Poundmaker (builder) and Shaka (warmonger). In the Poundmaker game, I won without ever fighting a single battle against the other other civs and ended up with 4 alliances and 3 declared friends. His city growth is amazing due the UI and the rapid territory growth from the trade routes. Shaka's ability to hold captured cities due the loyalty bonuses from this units really plays to aggression well. I won a cultural victory with Lautoro, his improvement is amazing, but the rest of the civ isn't very flavorful. Swift Hawk really never came up.
     
  20. Harun-al Rashid (Arabia)

    Harun-al Rashid (Arabia) Chieftain

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    Location:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    I agree with you, But seeing that Gandhis agressive behavior started out as a glitch, and now he nukes people more, the First Look stated that Chandragupta was more agressive than Gandhi!!?? I mean, that means Chandragupta will be crazy like heck.
     

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