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What's your worst military disaster?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by 6K Man, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    I try to be as prepared as possible. I haven't suffered something like that since I was a wee Settler. I built what I had thought was a large stack (~15 marines, 1 artillery, and 1 anti-tank), and attacked Churchill. Me, not understanding combat mechanics, targeted a hill city with a rather large concentration of CG longbows and a massive cultural presence. I attacked all out with my marines. Next turn, Churchy brought a large amount of trebs and maces. There were no survivors.
     
  2. hardcore_gamer

    hardcore_gamer King

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    Oct 25, 2009
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    My worst disasters are almost always a result of the AI launching tactical nukes at me.

    I spend all this time building a large army only to see it vanish from the face of the earth in a single turn as the AI drops some tactical nukes i was unaware of right on top of my forces:(
     
  3. Yonez

    Yonez Chieftain

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    Jun 3, 2009
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    88
    Not really the 'worst military disaster', but I am in the process of getting unexpectedly screwed at the moment. I decided to backstab Willem of France, my most friendly civ on the continent, while he was in the middle of a war with three other civs. His land spread from east to west, mine was a north-south pillar that touched upon the middle of his land, pretty much.

    I decided to attack from two angles, coming in from the north of both ends of his empire. I had two nice big stacks that could comfortably stomp through his cities with only a couple of catapult suicides for casualties, give or take. It was going fine, my eastern attack force was having no trouble whatsoever, had taken a couple of cities, likewise the western force, they'd taken two as well, including Paris. But this is where it all went wrong. I'd left about 10 units, including 5 full strength longbowmen and crossbowmen, in Paris while the rest went about their main objective. They'd moved south-west towards another of Willems cities, and just as they were bombarding their target, a French stack appeared right outside Paris. It wasn't enough to take it back, really, but I thought I'd play it safe and send a few attackers back to help out.

    Willem attacked Paris with five elephants and a couple of cavalry, and amazingly managed to kill seven of my untis. I looked at the combat odds afterwards and the odds of loss in order were roughly 8%, 10%, 10%, 20%, 25%, 40%, and then a weakened unit at around 60%. And that was it, it completely changed everything. Most of the crossbowmen and longbowmen were one XP away from an upgrade, which meant healing, and with a medic archer in there things would have been fine. This lack of defense meant they could capture the city back before my attackers could get back to defend and then they moved some longbowmen in there. I decided to send more attackers back to recapture, but they then just moved a stack to my newly captured city and beat up my weakened, fractious attackers en route thanks to their recaptured roads, and they're casually destroying my forces outside Paris now.

    I went from a minimum power ratio of 2.0 on this continent to 1.6 in about five turns. I've got reinforcements coming in dribs and drabs, and I can still take his empire fairly comfortably when the eastern force arrive, but my God did that bad luck slow things down.
     
  4. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    So, a cursory review of this thread suggests that most Civ4 military disasters can traced to
    1) miscalculating how many units are needed to take/hold a city
    2) surprises (upgrades or DoWs, or being surprised by a game feature you didn't know) or
    3) nukes.

    (3) can be avoided if you ban nukes. (2) is a function of experience - the good players recognize when an AI in WHEOOHRN has them in its sights, for example.

    (1) still happens to me when I have no choice. My crushed expeditionary force was trying to prevent a culture victory. Time was of the essence and I probably didn't have enough of it to build 5 more Transports and 20 more units, which would probably have won the day. At the higher levels, I suspect that there are times when you have to stake all you have on a desperation throw.

    I didn't notice any stories of military disasters wrought by clever AI moves...
     
  5. Navarre

    Navarre Legio XIII

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    Oct 11, 2007
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    Location:
    France
    Well, I do remember Isabelle DoWing on me out of the blue from another continent, attacking a big coastal city and razing it in one turn. It was military, it was a disaster, and it was a smart move. That's a long time ago, when I didn't know that Izzy was a total zealot, and I since learned to protect my coastal cities way better no matter how safe I feel, but still, it was nicely done. I've hated her for that move.
     
  6. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Jul 13, 2009
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    I don't get the "you can avoid nukes by banning them" argument. First, the UN isn't guaranteed to come before nukes, and second, if you're in a position to ban them (ie. got voted as secretary -> you're very liked or the 1st in population) you probably don't need to ban them in the first place. The AI vote choice is completely random so it's a crapshoot to get the nuke vote from an AI secretary.
     
  7. theskibum

    theskibum Brewer of Oatmeal Stout

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    I have one of these. I was Catherine and had been boxed in by Wang and Augustus fairly early. I also didn't have very good land for military production until Caste system and workshop combo was possible. No metals either. After I conquered Korea (with horse archers), I had 10 cities and just enough ability to produce commerce and hammers to keep the AI fairly happy and trading. I endured near constant warfare with Toku, but was able to keep Ragnar after him to keep from being invaded.

    My peace with Augustus was tenuous at best.
    Circumstances pushed me pusue a cultural victory.

    I kept almost all of my units on my only land border (with Augustus) since thats where Toku's forces always attacked from. I am 15 turns from cultural victory when Cyrus shows up on my back door with an inter-continental invasion force of 40 marines, 20 arty, and 10 machine guns all on transports in a heavily escorted stack ~15 destroyers, 5 battleships. The only city in that vicinity with more than 2 units is my third culture city, Seoul, I have 4 MGs there. Cyrus invades from his ships there and only loses 12 marines before the city is taken.

    I rush my entire land defense force to that part of my land, but even on rails it takes 3 turns to get there. In the meantime, he loads most of his troops back up, splits his naval force and takes 2 more coastal cities. I have no navy to stop this (he sunk my 4 destroyers). The turn before I counterstrike Seoul, Toku re-declares on me, this time aided by Augustus. I have two giant stacks on my, now nearly unprotected, land front (1 Toku, 1 Augustus). I split my counter-assault stack in half and routed half back to my land front, but they were too late to save 2 of my cities from falling to Toku & Augustus.

    I parked them on a hill between Moscow and St. Petersburg to have the best shot at defending my western flank. On the same turn they both bring thier massive stacks to bear on my hill defenders. My western stack was annihilated. I then launch my counter-assault on Seoul, and lost my whole stack due to having split my arty too. I was reduced to an army of 10 MGs and 4 tanks to defend 5 cities. I pulled everything back to Moscow and fortified. Cyrus took 3 more cities, Toku took 1, leaving me with only Moscow. Cyrus attacked Moscow first and only threw 3 arty at it before suiciding his marines and tanks on my MGs. My 10 MGs beat back a stack of 30 of his attackers before he gave up. Augustus came in next turn with a stack 60 units strong and wiped me out.
     
  8. banson

    banson Warlord

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    what did you do t piss every one off. and from what it sounds like you apperently had a defenceless empire on the verge of victory. wich turned out to be on the verge of anialation pretty soon.
     
  9. banson

    banson Warlord

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    Oct 17, 2009
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    yeah they get used alright, although ill never undrestand why one of my vassals in last game used nothing but tactical nukes on england and never invaded. he just ruduced the citys to 1 and 1 unit and kept luanching more nukes
    i used about 50 last game and 26 to start my last push for victory on france and celts. who where way behind in every thing.
     
  10. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    I was playing the Broken Star campaign, where you take a fragment of collapsed Russia and try and forge a new society with it. The barbarians cracked open one of the nuke bunkers, and dropped the big one on my capital. In Broken Star, apparently, nukes are way more powerful: the entire city and about half of my army disappeared. Instantly.
     
  11. banson

    banson Warlord

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    from what ive found out in that last game you need about 3 nukes a city to clear it out if its a big one some times 2 wll do on smaller citys
     
  12. Dasphios

    Dasphios Chieftain

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    Jan 12, 2009
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    I've got another cause for disastrous defeats: my own stupidity.

    After a badly planned, well-executed rampage leaves me in control of my entire continent, I cast my eyes on the other one, where Tokugawa and Charlemagne have been fighting, on and off, for as long as I'd known them. Both had repeatedly tried to draw me into the fight, but I'd always declined, having neither the navy nor the inclination to do so. But now, with no domestic threats, I realized I had a golden opportunity to make a beachhead on the other continent, making it much easier to conquer later, if I so chose. Japan and Holy Rome signed a treaty not long after I started building up my forces, but I wasn't worried. Tokugawa had swordsmen and samurai, nothing that could hold off cavalry and cannons. Smugly, I declared war. Stupidly, I forgot to check whether he had allies- or, you know, defensive alliances. Mistake number one. One click of a mouse and I've launched a world war as my vassals and I face down Japan, Maya, and Celtia. Since Tokugawa is the smallest and most backward, I decide to hit him first. I take Osaka, leave the wounded forces (and three machine guns) to hold it, and send everyone else out to the next city, on open plains, figuring that they'll be able to hold out for one turn (and won't have to waste one crossing the river). Mistake number two. I don't know how many units he hit me with (I stopped counting at forty), but when the dust had settled, my entire expeditionary force (twenty transports worth of units) was either dead or holed up in Osaka. I did eventually win that game, but I felt pretty darn stupid at the time.
     
  13. CliftonBazaar

    CliftonBazaar Prince

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    2 cases -

    I was playing a game on high level when I created an army of 6 swordsman and 2 axeman - to which I went to invade a city on a hill with 2 archers.
    End result = my army wiped out and the two archers had 0.1 and 0.2 hit points left :(

    Another game I played was a competition so no reloads - my army of catapults and redcoats were to move one square West so I would be on a forested hill next to the a capital city that housed an army. I was hoping my opponent would attack my stack and lose because of the defensive bonuses.
    I hit the wrong button and sent my army to the NW where they were now sitting in the middle of an open field - my opponent blasted me for minimum loss :(
     
  14. Kanzera

    Kanzera LOLOLOLOL

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    Okay, so I had BtS for a few weeks, and I was still a n00b at the game, since I barely played the original Civ4 before upgrading. I was playing an Earth map as the Romans, and I had conquered Greece (admittedly, with the help of the WB :rolleyes:), and I had pretty much all of the historical Roman Empire except for Egypt, which belonged to Hatty. It was the medevial age, and I was leading in score (again, with the help of WB, since I really sucked) and all seemed pretty peaceful. I was in no wars, and even if I did I founded Constantinople on the chokepoint that it was actually on to defend my empire in Europe, right? Wrong. Qinny had three vassals; Genghis, Asoka, and Sury. I had good relations with his vassals, but the master was furious at me because of my heathen religion. Never in my n00biest dreams did I imagine that Quinny, who was all the way on the other side of the continent, would destroy me in a war. He DoW'd me, and suddenly I was at war with 4 people and I had 4 big stacks of units at my Eastern front. I suppose the AI have some kind of option to tell their vassals to prepare for war, because his vassals were pleased with me and I saw stacks of their units right away. He captured my city in Anatolia, and then proceeded to capture Constantinople even though I rushed a bunch of musketmen over there. Luckily, I had just started settling America, and I had cities in the British Isles, or I probably would've lost the game right there because he steamrolled right through my European cities with a vengeance. All because he didn't like my religion...sigh...
     
  15. banson

    banson Warlord

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    well heres some thing you can think on. the civs dont decide to dow you on a random turn. they spend lots of turns building up a force to attak you with. so since all 4 had big staks id have to say he was already planning your demise a while back
     
  16. Bluto_Longneck

    Bluto_Longneck Chieftain

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    The worst loss was when I founded the city on 7 floodplains and a hill of gold + a couple of food outside the BFC.

    Hum-di-dum. just lovely.

    Then Monty shows up north after 3 turns.

    I had horse just N of my city and grab it with a settler.

    NOW, barracks and Imms, 2 workers chopping, me whipping.

    16 Immortals jump into the forests of Aztec territory, seeing only 2 archers protecting the city. It's on a hill though.

    2 archers? Haha, I say and press enter.

    He whipped another archer, 16 Imms attack.

    16 against 3. Good odds, wouldn't you say?

    End result: 14 dead Imms, 2 retreated and still 3 archers alive.



    Nah, I don't blame RNG, it was probally bad management from my side.

    New game was the only option after that.
     
  17. Kanzera

    Kanzera LOLOLOLOL

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    Well, yeah. I already knew that he was prepping for that war, but I was wondering how he got his vassals to build stacks for the war as well.
     
  18. banson

    banson Warlord

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    they will not like or like who he does. so they build acordonly to their master since things he does affect them.
     
  19. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    First time playing BTS in over a year...

    I decide to rush my neighbor at the worst. possible. time. Right before Civil Service and macemen @ around 900 AD, when I had no horses or iron yet. Here's the diplomacy scenario: The weakest guy on my continent, Saladin, is like +13 with me. He is the worst enemy of Roosevelt, and I apparently did virtually everything possible to piss him off - He's at like -15 with me. He DOWs me. He and Saladin are at the northern half of the continent, my immediate neighbors are Asoka to the west with 3 cities, Constantine to the north with 5-6, and Isabella to the east with 5-6.

    Since Roosevelt is on the other side of the world and my buddy Saladin is next to him, fighting, I decide maybe I should do a quick land-grab to expand my empire. Without paying attention to the religious markings, I decide to build a stack by Asoka and DOW him later. Here's religious stats: Me & Saladin, Hinduism. Everyone else: Buddhism, and man they hate me.

    So, stupid me built a lame stack of maybe 10 units, mostly axemen, 2 spears for anti-cav, a couple longbows to stay behind in the capped cities...

    First town I get to has 2 archers and 1 axeman in it. My whole stack got massacred - and then my other 2 neighbors DOW'd me while I have virtually no military and just spent my whips on that "invasion" stack. Constantine and Isabella have horse archers :D

    After my stack died and I got DOW'd by my whole continent except the weakest guy, I decided I'd do a redo :p
     
  20. fearthereaper

    fearthereaper Pack Leader

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    I'm playing a game as Justinian and i plan to invade the Khmer empire. My cities start building a large stack of Modern Armor, Mech Infantry, Mobile Artillery and SAMs. Day zero comes and my units pour across the border. When they got 2 turns into enemy territory, they were pounded by an overwhelming amount of Tactical Nukes, and in one turn there is nothing but ashes.


    Lesson Learned: Don't attack civs with uranium.
     

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