Wheel of Time scenario

[steveslomp]

Sooo... apparently civ 5 will have a map editor like civ 3 and not civ 4 Since there should be a decent map editor for civ 5 I plan on making a WoT scenario. I have already done it for civ 3 but the AI was quite passive which made it rather boring. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for a scenario or would like to work on one with me? Here are a few of my ideas...

I was thinking about doing one at the start of the first book and hopefully be able to make it so that one either kills the dragon reborn or the Ba'alzamon, or the Seanchan just takes over everything lol.... (not sure if you can make the victory conditions work for that)

or

Make one based after the Dark One is destroyed so as not to complicate the victory conditions and so ppl arent let down if you can win the game with the dragon reborn dead etc etc.

or

Make a map with the map provided in the books but adding more, like the Seanchan world and trying something completely different that way.

Or try all of them lol

I would like to make it so that countries are named properly (and cities of course), and go all out and hopefully be able to rename techs, buildings, units, diplomacy, and of course world wonders so that way we can really play the scenario the way it should be.... Cause if its not it can really take away from the enjoyment of it..

So any ideas or anyone wanting to help with a project like that???

 

[seasnake]

Some ideas from a fan:

Aiel should be able to use Desert and Plains like roads (Iroquios UA), to reflect their incredible running and walking. Their unique unit should be Maidens of the Spear, horseless version of the knight that moves just as fast and is as strong, but doesn't need horses, and Stone Dogs, a stronger version of Spearmen. They shouldn't be able to build any sword units.

Tairen should have Glory of the Stone, which means all improvements built in capital are cheaper in their other cities (Roman UA). Defenders of the Stone replace Knights, stronger attack. UB should be fishing docks, which bring in extra coin from sea tiles. They should suffer more unhappiness from population (Tear is pretty squalid).

Two Rivers should have Blood of Manetheren, meaning they get more great generals and they are better (Chinese UA). UU is Two Rivers Bowman, a bowman with a huge bonus to range and against melee units, and their UB should be the Catapult Towers, which strengthen city defense. They should have a penalty when fighting outside cultural borders (Two Rivers folk are more comfortable at home).

Mayenne's UA is Charm of the First, with city state relations being easier to maintain (Greek UA). UU should be Winged Cavalry, a stronger version of the lancer, and second UU is mercenaries, which are weaker swordsmen but cheaper to build. (Mayenne is small and relies on Mercenaries). They should have an unhappiness penalty from number of cities (reflecting the small size).

Tar Valon: UA is The Tower Stands, which means all tribute from city states is increased and tiles cost less money to buy. Warders are the unique unit, which replace Longswordsman and heal fully after combat (reflecting healing from their Aes Sedai). UB is Ogier Grove, which gives extra culture and science. Social Policies should cost extra (White Tower is SLOW to adopt change).

Illian: Splendor of the South, each city gives culture. UU: Illianer Companion Cavalry, strongest Cavalry in the game. UB is Canal system, which increase happiness in the city. Penalty to Research.

Ogier: Ogier Builders, which speeds all wonder construction by 25 percent (egyptian UA). UU is Ogier Gardners, most powerful melee unit in the game. UB is Stedding, which means the city heals faster from combat. Penalty, cannot build mounted units.

Seanchan: The Crystal Throne, Longer Golden Age length (Persian UA). UU Deathwatch Guard, Fast moving longswordsman, UU is Da'mane, stronger but more expensive versions of Aes Sedai. Penalty, receive only half tribute from city states.

Cairhien: Crossroads of the Spine, +2 income from trade routes (Arab UA). UU Cairhein Nobles, which cannot be flanked. UB is the Great Library, a national wonder that can only be built if there is a library in all cities. When built it gives a free tech and a free social policy. Penalty for Game of Houses, which slow population growth.

Andor: Center of Industry, which gives double amounts of horses and iron (Russian UA). UU Dragons, most powerful siege and range attack in the game (outside of the much more expensive Aes Sedai, Asha'man and Damane). Second UU is Asha'man, which are Aes Sedai with longer range. Penalty, road maintenance is more expensive.

Seafolk: Mistress of Ships, All ships move faster, embarked units can defend themselves. (england and Songhai). UU: Raker, fastest and strongest ship in the game. Second UU is Master of Blades, which defends well against Penalty: Land tiles cost more.

Saldea: Marshall of the Blightborder, Bonus against all Shadowspawn, extra gold from destroying Shadowspawn camps, all units start with +1 line of sight (germany and american UAs). UU Borderlanders, workers that can fight (and thus be stacked with one unit of regular army), and second UU is Marshall Cavalry, Cavalry that ignores terrain penalties. Penalty: Relations with City states decay faster.

Amadicia: Will of the Light, effect like Japan's Bushido (strength not diminished by battles). Whitecloak is UU, strong melee unit, Whitecloak Archer is second UU (Archer with bonus defending). Penalty, cannot train Aes Sedai.

Shienar: Warrior Code, bonus culture from combat victory, Extra UU. UUs Shienaran Swordsmen and Spearmen, which have bonuses fighting and defending on hills. UB Royal Stables, which provides extra experience to all mounted units trained their. Penalty: city heal rate is slower.

City states include Falme, Ayamar, Shara, Murandy, Malkier, Baerlon, Tarwin's Gap, Salidar, Ebou Dar, Shadar Logoth, Arafel, Kandor, etc.

 

[kaltorak]

I don't think the dragon or dark one should be important. Just having the map with the apropiate factions in it would be cool.

 

[seasnake]

A few changes:

New Civ: Shaido. UA, Long Walkers (get the Aiel UA from the list above). UU Gaishan, UU Meradin. Gaishan are cheaper workers, Meradin are warriors that have a bonus when fighting other warriors. Penalty, cannot build a navy.

Change: Aiel UA is now ji'e'toh. Culture from combat.
Change: Shienar UA, now Warrior Code let's you produce better stables, barracks and stronger spear and swordsman. Two UUs and Two UBs.

Shaido and Aiel train Wise Ones instead of Aes Sedai, but they are the same. Sea Folk train Windfinders. It's only a flavor change.

Other city states: Rhuidean, Finnland, Far Madding, Shara.

Setup: There are no settlers, all cities are already built, either playable civ or city state. Culture grows cities slowly, high thresholds for culture increases. Mostly need to buy tiles. The Seanchan have the most cities but are on their own continent. Need to cross water to get into the action. Mayenne has only one city, but it has very favorable terrain, contact with Shara and Rhuidean (both of which gift units, militaristic city-states) and starts with several naval units.

Number of turns to Tarmon Gaidon. You are Rand Al Thor, you're picking one nation from which to attempt to unite the people By the time the turns run out, you need to have either united all the nations by conquest or diplomacy. Or you can blow the Horn of Valere if you unlock enough social policies and the Heroes of the Horn save the day for the light (Utopia replacement). Should you fail to do this by then, the Light is Doomed! If someone else does this before then, you are denounced as a false dragon, gentled and executed.

You can build wonders like WhiteBridge, the White Tower, the Black Tower, the Dome of the Sun.

You can also train wonder units, like Mat Cauthon and Perrin Aybara and Lan Mandragoran, which are powerful one-of-a-kind units.

 

[steveslomp]

Hey those are some great ideas for the game, just the kind of thing I am looking for I havent done too much research yet for all the new aspects of civ 5 but I will sometime soon. I'll def look at your ideas when I start making the map and developing the nations, your post should save me some research for sure. There is also a lot of information on the internet about all the different nations and their gov't and so on. I'm still very unsure where I want to go with this scenario. The Seanchan have me a bit worried because they have a lot of differences compared to the rest of the nations. I might even do two seperate worlds, one of just the Seanchan after Artur Hawkwing dies and the War of a Hundred years begins. My mind is drooling at all the possibilities, hopefully the map editor gives me a lot of control over what i can all do

I'd love to be able to say more but I'm just rereading the books and my mind isn't too fresh with everything I'd like to be. Thansk for the post!!

@Kaltorak- I agree with you, having the dragon reborn and such would make things a lot more complicated and staying away from that might be best...I still might try it out but I think I'll pursue and develop other ideas first.

 

[Ogrelord]

Barbarians should be Trollocs. Two Rivers should not be Civ (it belongs to Andor kingdom). Ogier Stedding could replace Ruins.

 

[steveslomp]

KK I really like your scenario idea with the Dragon Reborn. I had never considered a concept like that... As for Aes Sedai I was considering doing something regarding the Ajahs, like the Green Ajah is the battle Ajah, the Yellow Ajah as more of a healing unit, etc etc. I would really like to see what I can all do with units able to yeild the One Power and base the game a little bit more around that because they should be superior to the average fighting unit. I really like your scenario idea

 

[steveslomp]

@ogrelord - I agree with you on that one, unless this map is going to take place way in the past two rivers or manetheren should be a part of andor and relativily small at that as well.

 

[seasnake]

Two Rivers should be small civ in my opinion, both for gameplay and story reasons. They occupy a far enough removed section from the rest of Andor that they would be in a good location to expand, can start with two or three cities, and if you are not leading them then they can be led by Perrin.

 

[steveslomp]

http://media.photobucket.com/image/wheel%20of%20time%20map%20seanchan/PurpleTwilight/map-world.jpg

Here is a possible map i might use for the geography...

 

[Babydavy]

Hi, First post, but I've been lurking a bit.

You've got me interested. So many possiblilities. I have thought about this before, and I probably would not have Rand and Co. involved (maybe cameo appearances and stuff) but the different cultures in WoT are kind of perfect for a Mod (especially now that FFH is going to be a stand alone game).

Maybe you could gain Aes Sedai, Ashaman or Taveren (spelling?) as Great People, but the former two should be more frequent in spawning.

Don't know, that's just my two cents.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Nice idea, I'm a big fan of WOT too, I think this would make a great SP mod like FFH is for Civ4. I'd certainly be willing to try it out.

CS

 

[CanuckSoldier]

I think the best scenario would be to have it start after The Return of the Seachan to "Randland" and have them start with occupying part of the map. But the possible game starts are many, including having the Seachan homeland on the map and have them have to try and invade Randland, not sure if you could program the AI in Civ5 to do predispostioned things like that though.

CS

 

[DeepQantas]

The game should start with several Dragons roaming the map, each with their small army. You don't know which is the real one until one of them does something significant, like taking over some faction's Capital.

You could still talk to them and feed them gold and units before that. If you support the right one early he'll be friendly later on. Also, different Dragons should have radically different personalities and end-game strategies.

 

[steveslomp]

All right so I've been going crazy and really wanting to do a mod so i am gonna do one for civ 4, it should help me get some skills for moding and apparently you might be able to convert this stuff to civ 5 so might not be just for civ 4 after all. anyways, I've been reading up a bunch and I have figured out how to do a bunch of stuff but still not sure on some things such as editing units and having special victory conditions, and changing names for new cities that are built for the civs. anyone know how to do any of that?

 

[seasnake]

Making a new Civ isn't that hard. I've done it many times. You can't convert mods from Civ 4 to Civ V, only maps.

Each civ has a city name list, you just edit it to be what you want. Like Emond's Field, Watch Hill, Devon Ride, Tairen Ferry, etc.

I still think you're better off making a fixed map with a fixed number of cities, sort of like Total War. Then you can factor in things like start size and terrain bonuses into making these decisions. But of course if you're doing Civ 4 then it is a lot harder, because of the stacks of doom. If you have 1 UPT you can really compensate for size with terrain and tactics, stacks of doom will ALWAYS come down to who has the most cities (and can pump out the best troops).

You can compensate for this by making military units cost population, so cities have to choose between building wonders and improvements and fielding armies. That means terrain and initial start size of armies is still more important than in a normal Civ IV game, because armies are of necessity much smaller. Promotions will also be worth more. You can tie promotions to technologies, like have a Blitz promotion for Crossbowmen that can be unlocked only if you research "Hand Cranks" or better Healing Promotions for Aes Sedai if you research different weaves of the power.

I'm working on a 3.5 version of my mod but when that's done I'll chat with you more about this (should be this weekend).

 

[CanuckSoldier]

What you really need to do is figure out a goal for the game, without a clear goal all the new units and traits are just icing. Start with the victory conditions for the game and work back, once you have a working outline then you can start programming.

Fall from Heaven is a good example, the author started with a story line that framed the game, and then used that to set a set of victory conditions, and then build the civs/units around that.

CS

 

[Ktulu]

If you want to free yourself from the restrictions of the timeline of the books, you could do something based on an earlier era or even start the game after the breaking (which might lend itself better to the format of a civ game).

Great idea, I'll be interested in whatever you come up with.

 

[mushroomshirt]

Hi, First post, but I've been lurking a bit.

Welcome Babydavy!

 

[Ogrelord]

I like the fact that WB can import maps. I already started working on it.
Didn't go for too much precision since I don't know how the squares will convert into hexes. Definitely the Marsh tiles will be useful to flesh out the Drowned Lands, especially to rescale it when the rest of the map is done.

For Mayene, that city-state or civ will need maybe horses (or more likely trade oilfish for it) for its Winged Guard. 3 oilfish (whales) with some sea resources. Silk to represent trade from Sea Folk, and first port from Shara. Some sort of bonus resource from the Drowned Lands to represent the tusked water pigs. Need some sort of economic bonus to make Mayene an economic powerhouse, and keep Tear away.