1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

When a civ wants to trade maps...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by goodolarchie, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    I've noticed it often means they are/will be going into war mode with you. It seems weird because this happens even with open borders, where they are free to scout and get your layout in a much more nonchalant way. I know its not always the case, civs also seem to want maps post-Optics when they are scouting to circumnavigate and colonize. Still, I've noticed a pattern that aggressive civs will ask for map, then go into WHEOOHRN (if they weren't already in it), suddenly there's a stack at your border. The only logic I could put to this is that the AI wants to select a vulnerable city to attack since the map reveals all cities at once.

    For this reason I generally don't give out my map (and to get the +1 ship movement!). As a trading chip it usually only carries 5 or 10 gold value and I just don't see any reason not to keep the competition in the dark.

    Has anyone else noticed this or am I :crazyeye: ?
     
  2. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    As far as I know map trades are independent of war declarations. If you're first to Paper, you can usually get a bunch of gold for trading maps with everyone so it's usually worth it imo.

    As you can see, both rely on your diplo standing. While some cases seem true, there's no correlation there. (All civs will go to war against you at Furious but none will trade maps for example).

     
  3. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    Well, what started this line of thought is that Catherine asked me for my map even though we were all still landlocked on the same 3-civ island, we had all discovered the entire thing. Shortly thereafter she DoW'd. I can't recall what her disposition was, probably pleased. I wasn't trying to relate dispositions of war mode and dispositions of map trade mode, just that they will generally ask for it right before you get their SoD in your backyard. I've noticed it happen in other games as well. If its not for war-reconnaissance purposes I have no idea what in the code would necessitate the trading maps when they already know the land topography. I just find it too much of a recurring theme to be coincidence.
     
  4. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    Refusing aggressive civs' demands is what causes the war. :p
     
  5. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    Very true! In this case, its a trade proposal, so no diplo penalties. As in "Hey, want to show us your troop allocations per city so we can hit you where it counts!?"
     
  6. Dr.Null

    Dr.Null forIhavetastedthesushi

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    594
    Yeah. One game I got Optics and Paper first, and got literally thousands of gold selling my maps to everyone, for up to 170 gold from an AI. (Not all had that much gold, so check them before you whore out your exploration.)

    Map trades don't show troops, do they?
     
  7. AveiMil

    AveiMil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    365
    Where did you get this graphic? Is there a useful Excel sheet around that I'm unaware of?
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    It's been around for a while. The last time I saw one posted was by dingding in his India: Gandhi's conquest game. Can't remember where I got mine.
     
  9. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,271
    Yeah, where can we get a chart of all the "hidden" AI preferences like that? (DoWs, borders, favorite religions, etc.)

    edit: wow, same question getting asked inside of 5 minutes
     
  10. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    AIs just consider the map another bargaining chip. They aren't sophisticated enough to prioritize getting maps of their victims.
     
  11. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    I'll add this post in my signature as a reference.

    I packaged all the spreadsheets/adobe files I have accumulated from this forum in a rar.

    Includes:
    • DaveMCW's Great People Preferences (html)
    • Attitude Declarations chart
    • Attitude Increases chart
    • Bastards Chart (from Warlords)
    • Deals Chart
    • PeaceWeights Chart
    • Tech trades Chart
    • DanF's complete AI XML values spreadsheet

    EDIT: pixiejmcc has pointed out an explanation to the various variables in the XML values spreadsheet. Take a look by clicking here.

    ***I have not made any of these and I'm sorry I can't remember who made all of them individually, although I suspect DanF is responsible for a few.***
     

    Attached Files:

  12. AveiMil

    AveiMil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    365
    Great, thanks a lot!
     
  13. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,271
    Scrumptious... thanks a lot Kossin :hatsoff:
     
  14. goodolarchie

    goodolarchie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    Yeah, that's an awesome reference pack :goodjob:
     
  15. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,364
    ¡¡¡ Wow !!!
     
  16. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Apologies for the off-topic bump, but I have a question regarding the "Bastards chart" from Kossin's zip file. What do the War and Backstab percentages refer to?

    And Total too, what's that all about?
     
  17. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,107
    One hell of a :bump: but with me.

    I tried to download the attachment, but it has been borked in the migration process. Is it available somewhere else, or could somebody re-upload/attach it?
     
  18. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    CA
    I think this is it
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,107
    Thanks. That one I have actually, and it's good, but I am looking for the files with overview of the most important settings, DanF's Excels, and so forth. It was very useful.
     
  20. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    3,951
    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    You should send a PM to kossin, advertise him he should update his signature.

    Meanwhile... sort of by chance :)
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page