When and how to deal with corruption

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Jan 7, 2009
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Hey all. As you can probably see, I am new to this forum, and to Civilization. My question is when is a good time to build the FP? I saw the thread on ring city placement so right now my palace is directly in the middle of the core cities. However, the cities that i have gained through my military diplomacy (;) are all but fully corrupt. I have been trying to clear out my next set of core cities but the going is slow. SHould I just build the FP where my palace is and then move the palace later or what. Oh, I play the vanilla version on Regent. Thanks.
 
Hey all. As you can probably see, I am new to this forum, and to Civilization. My question is when is a good time to build the FP? I saw the thread on ring city placement so right now my palace is directly in the middle of the core cities. However, the cities that i have gained through my military diplomacy (;) are all but fully corrupt. I have been trying to clear out my next set of core cities but the going is slow. SHould I just build the FP where my palace is and then move the palace later or what. Oh, I play the vanilla version on Regent. Thanks.

There are by and large three different types of FP/Palace placement that I use:


The first is to use the FP to simply enlargen the original core. The FP is placed either into the first, or second ring and make sure that the area where corruption is manageable is shaped like an ellipsis. This is a fairly quick and easy way for FP placement and you will have little problems to handbuild everything, viz. you'll have little problems if you can't rely on leaders. I generally use this kind FP/Palace scheme when I play a fairly peaceful, fast research game. The drawback is that this kind of placement does not tap the full potential of the FP though.


The second is to use the FP to build a second, independent core. One of the requirements is of course that you have the land for the second core area, and a second that you need a leader (leaving aside any kind of palace jumps by abandoning) to pull it off. Both of these requirements call for conquest and war. Then there are two ways, in which this can be done. First, Palace in the old core, FP in the second core. Second, FP in the old core, and Palace in the second. Which of these to use is somewhat dependent on what kind of RCP you decided on in your old core.

For example, in one game I used a very tight city placement in my original core with the first set of cities at distance 3, and then later realized that the cities in Egypt, which I had conquered, were already neatly placed at distance 5 around the former Egpytian capital Thebes. Placing the new FP there wouldn't net me all that much in terms of really good, rank1 cities. So, I decided to prebuild the FP in my old capital, Beijing, and when the prebuild was ready to move the Palace away, to the new land, to Thebes. Now I only had to switch the prebuild in now fully corrupt Beijing, to Forbidden Palace, and voilà I am more than twice as strong in terms of uncorrupted commerce and shield, than before.

But normally, if your original core isn't that tightly spaced, it may just be easier to leave the Palace where it is and move the FP to the second core and be done with it.


And then there is the last type of FP and Palace placement, which is by far the strongest, and most exploitive. And that is the remote Palace. Roughly you place the FP somewhere into a fairly central position and then move the Palace to some place somewhere far, far away. And while it is the potentially strongest scheme, it generally also takes a really high investment. You'll need a lot of cities around the FP to make it more profitable than the other two placements, and probably several leaders and a far away location (and a leader in that far away location) to pull it off.




So, by and large, the decision on what to do with the FP will depend to a very high degree on what kind of game you want, and what you expect to get, say, in terms of leaders. Maybe if you showed some screenshots I could give some more help with what good options in your particular game are. But in any case, leaders are pretty much necessary for the big FP magicks. ;)

And one more afterthought, you don't have to build the FP as quickly as you can per se. RCP already permits you to build as large original core by just relying on the Palace.
 
I agree with Emsworth, but I'm not much of a fan of the Remote palace jump because I find it too complicated to set up properly, even though it can reap some additional benefits. I tend to prefer the first method he outlined by placing the FP into the second ring, since I find OCP to be usually too low to create a functional "second core".
 
Well, I see why so many people recomend this site; Lord Emsworth, that post was great. Elear, thanks for your contribution as well. I am a little confused about the post of yours Lord Emsworth. In the example you used with Egypt and Thebes, why didn't you build the FP there? Was it only because you wanted to be able to prebuild? Also, when do you (or anybody) build the FP? is it only after a certain amount of teritory is conquered/number of cities obtained? Thank you.
 
I've played with basically two options: Wait until you have expanded enough to have another core, especially if it is on another continent. Problem is the wait for it to build unless you have a Great Leader to rush it. The other option is to build it as soon as its available to cut down on corruption, this happens when you reach half the OCN.

Just remember you only get one FP, while you can move the Palace any number of times.
 
Well, I see why so many people recomend this site; Lord Emsworth, that post was great. Elear, thanks for your contribution as well. I am a little confused about the post of yours Lord Emsworth. In the example you used with Egypt and Thebes, why didn't you build the FP there?

Because the rank corruption around the FP is based on the ranks around the Palace. Which means that placing the FP in Thebes would have given all the cities in the first ring (at distance 5/5.5) ranks based on the number of cities closer than that (i.e. distances 2 to 4.5) around Beijing. And with the tight placement around Beijing (5 cities at dist. 3/3.5) all the cities around Thebes would have been rank 6. Doing it the other way round meant that the 5 first ring cities around Beijing maintained their status as rank 1 cities, with additional rank 1 cities around Thebes (I think there were more than 8).

By and large this is the same thing that makes the remote Palace exploit work, i.e. if there are no cities anywhere near your Palace (up to dist X), all the cities around the FP (within dist X) receive ranks corruption based on that, iow none.

Was it only because you wanted to be able to prebuild? Also, when do you (or anybody) build the FP? is it only after a certain amount of teritory is conquered/number of cities obtained? Thank you.

That depends largely on what plan to do. If I think I'll be stuck with the land that I peacefully settled during the land grab, then I'll hand build it by hand and fairly soon. If I expect to take some land, I'd probably wait for a leader and until I have a neat area for a second core.
 
Off topic yet within the topic; I'm annoyed by the change that made a FP have the same effect regardless of where it was placed.

I understand that perhaps it was broken, as in the game couldn't process a provincial capital, and it needed to be changed just to smooth out the maximum city.corruption thingie, but it takes away a layer of strategy if you can just plunk the FP within your homeland. :rolleyes:
 
Forbidden Palace is worth 10 times it's cost. Build that bad boy on an island or a large far off "colonial" area and you'll be set for life.
 
OK, I think I understand how this thing works. So say a built my palace originally with a ring placement of 4. If I then make my FP there and move my palace to a location where the nearest ring is distance 10, all of my cities distance 4-10 of the FP will be rank 1? What if thenext ring of cities around my new palace is 15? Will all cities within 15 of the FP be rank 2?
 
OK, I think I understand how this thing works. So say a built my palace originally with a ring placement of 4. If I then make my FP there and move my palace to a location where the nearest ring is distance 10, all of my cities distance 4-10 of the FP will be rank 1?

Yes. (With the minimal quibble that its 4-10.5. Distance is always rounded down to the next integer. So, you don't have to place all your cities at, say, dist 4 exact. 4.5 is just as good.)

What if thenext ring of cities around my new palace is 15? Will all cities within 15 of the FP be rank 2?

The rank of the cities in the second ring depends on the number of cities in the first ring around the capital. If you had 8 cities in your first ring, then every city in your second ring would be rank 9.
 
Thank you so much. One last question (I hope). How do you count dist.? I know that a diagonal move is 1.5 and a N/W/E/S move is 1. When you count, do you count only the distance between the cities or do you include the last move to get to that city. For example, in one game I had four cities with 3 dist between the capital, or CxxxC in all directions. If I made a city that had two diagonal moves between it and the capital,
C x x x
x x x x
x x x x
x x x C
would it have the same distance or would it be 4.5 (i know they are the same for corruption purposes now though)?
 
Thank you so much. One last question (I hope). How do you count dist.? I know that a diagonal move is 1.5 and a N/W/E/S move is 1. When you count, do you count only the distance between the cities or do you include the last move to get to that city. For example, in one game I had four cities with 3 dist between the capital, or CxxxC in all directions. If I made a city that had two diagonal moves between it and the capital,
C x x x
x x x x
x x x x
x x x C
would it have the same distance or would it be 4.5 (i know they are the same for corruption purposes now though)?

I would count CxxxC as dist 4, and the diagonal placement that you've drawn as dist 4.5. Incidentally that is also my preferred placement pattern with ideally 8 cities in the first ring. I hope it comes out with the colors; the grey Cs are supposed to show alternative locations, the blue is the Capital:

C X X X C
X X X X C
X X X C
X X C C
C C

Second ring would come at dist 8/8.5.
 
I'd like to thank everyone for all of help. I tried rcp in my last game, regent, and got out of the middle ages at about 1300 (usually 1500), no doubt because of the low corruption/waste.
 
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