Is there a general guideline? They are very expensive and for cities that need them, which will mostly be cottage cities, you'd be whipping off of mature cottages. Sometimes they coincide with running caste during your first GA. What about for banks and grocers? Grocers are often needed just for the health bonuses and banks for Wall Street, but besides that are they worth getting except for in your very best commerce cities?
When are markets worth It?
- Thread starter byang08
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If I have two cities side by side close enough to share several cottages, I sometimes build a market in one so I can switch which city is working the cottages depending on where my science slider is (0% or 100%). The other city gets a library and is working cottages most of the time. The market city becomes a production city when it's not running cottages.
I have no idea if that's a great idea or not, but it's something I do. An example is when a religion gets founded in a city I planned on making a production city, and that city also happens to be right next to my planned bureau capital.
I have no idea if that's a great idea or not, but it's something I do. An example is when a religion gets founded in a city I planned on making a production city, and that city also happens to be right next to my planned bureau capital.
dylanmeditates
Warlord
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Big cities will use it for bonuses and you will definitely want to build one on a cottage capital or shrine
This.
And definitely not for happiness. That's some crazy wasted hammers. 15
warriors (if you have hunting then pillage a resource) in HR or trade for happiness resources is the way to go. Besides, at this point in the game you'll likely be needing other important buildings like a forge or CH when needed. In regards to Banks and Grocers......On Immortal and below I'll rarely have any. Bureau Capital? Sure, it could work. But besides that I'll be whipping units as much as possible. In the majority of the games there's simply not a need to invest
into those buildings. It's usually a waste.If playing in Isolation or you're playing as a FIN leader and have quite literally thrown down a cottage in every spot possible then sure......Markets and Banks are fine. However, I'd caution that it's best to work the cottages and save those buildings until after you have CS and irrigation. This lets you then use the extra gain in food to whip w/out hurting your cottages. And there's no harm in waiting til US in some cases and use rush buy instead (circumstance dependent).
elitetroops
Deity
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Sometimes when going to war after lib I find myself in the situation where war weariness shoots through the roof and several other civs reach democracy for emancipation which adds up to a ton of anger in all cities. At this point, if I want to keep some city large I might build a market for happiness if I have at least 3 of the resources. 150 hammers for 3 happy faces is better than building temples or any other happiness buildings (except forge, which I likely have already).And definitely not for happiness. That's some crazy wasted hammers. 15
And definitely not for happiness. That's some crazy wasted hammers. 15
.
Don't agree at all.
Permanent happiness is worth a lot more than 15
(if you even can build warriors at that point) and HR also give you unit upkeep and denies you better civics.How much happy/health you get from markets/grocers greatly affect their value and should not be discarded. If you can get all four resources, they are worth building in almost every city that needs the happiness.
Pretty much every time I built a market in a typical domination/conquest type of game it turned out to be bad play. It's better to get both gold and happiness from conquering more land!
As already pointed out, markets have their uses in cities with a shrine or in games where you aim for a space colony victory (or for some other reason want to play a game that lasts to +1900AD).
As already pointed out, markets have their uses in cities with a shrine or in games where you aim for a space colony victory (or for some other reason want to play a game that lasts to +1900AD).
Izuul
Level 86
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I meant military units for actual fighting, because the only way i have that much unhappiness is war weariness.
My opinion is that you frequently only need 1 really big city and that's the bureau cap. It's usually not very difficult to stuff it full of warriors or whatever to keep it happy. Other cities can usually get up to adequate size via luxuries either of your own or obtained via resource trades or other things such as religion, theater, etc. If those cities grow into unhappiness or become unhappy due to heavy war weariness I'm much more inclined to just whip them down than to waste 150 hammers on a market.
My opinion is that you frequently only need 1 really big city and that's the bureau cap. It's usually not very difficult to stuff it full of warriors or whatever to keep it happy. Other cities can usually get up to adequate size via luxuries either of your own or obtained via resource trades or other things such as religion, theater, etc. If those cities grow into unhappiness or become unhappy due to heavy war weariness I'm much more inclined to just whip them down than to waste 150 hammers on a market.
Pangaea
Rock N Roller
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Don't think there is much wrong with building a market or two in select cities for happiness or extra 
when not running the :research: slider. Like I said, a market in the capital (which is typically cottaged), the shrine city, or the NE city. Not much wrong with that. I'm losing access to warriors fairly early on, and when I'm building units I want to use them for cracking skulls, not for sitting in cities costing me money.
Obviously it's not a building you should build everywhere, at least I don't think so, but it has its place in a few cities given the right circumstances.
The same with Grocers and even Aqueducts. Health can be a bigger issue than happiness, so it's not uncommon to build an aqueduct in the capital - particularly if you're not able to trade for enough happiness and it's a little food poor so you can't afford to have much negative health.
when not running the :research: slider. Like I said, a market in the capital (which is typically cottaged), the shrine city, or the NE city. Not much wrong with that. I'm losing access to warriors fairly early on, and when I'm building units I want to use them for cracking skulls, not for sitting in cities costing me money. Obviously it's not a building you should build everywhere, at least I don't think so, but it has its place in a few cities given the right circumstances.
The same with Grocers and even Aqueducts. Health can be a bigger issue than happiness, so it's not uncommon to build an aqueduct in the capital - particularly if you're not able to trade for enough happiness and it's a little food poor so you can't afford to have much negative health.
elitetroops
Deity
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Pretty much what Pangaea said. To clarify, I said nothing about "all of my cities" in my previous post. I said "if I want to keep some city large", which pretty much means bureau cap and NE city.
Making a theater for happiness, but refusing to build a full market makes no sense at all.
Theater is 1 happy for 50 hammers, unless you're actually using the slider or creative.
chessplaya
Prince
I completely disagree with this comment. If you actually have Dyes so Theater gives +1
in cities then Theater is already as efficient as a Market except in the case that you actually have all 4 market resources, in which case you are probably doing something seriously wrong if more than one or two of your cities ever get unhappy. Also the main reasons to build theaters are for cheap +3 culture in border cities and to unlock Globe Theater for drafting, and Markets do neither of these things.You aren't capturing many cities with 12 HAs. Even if it's just a single spear and a couple of archers in a hill city you'll probably lose 50%. What's better, worthless city engulfed in foreign culture or +4 happiness in your best cities?
And a bit later on, a market is only 1.5 cuirassier, cheaper under organized religion.
And a bit later on, a market is only 1.5 cuirassier, cheaper under organized religion.
