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when do conquest and domination split?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by podraza, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. podraza

    podraza Warlord

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    At what point do the strategies for conquest and domination victories become distinct?

    In a recent game, I played with the original intent of getting a domination win. When I had about 50% of the land mass under my control, I decided to make it a conquest instead, thinking that might be more satisfying and because I rarely win games that way.

    So my only change in strategy was to raze and pillage rather than keep and defend. And to do so at the 50% mark.

    It is likely, however, that much of my empire is dead weight and not paying for itself. I have 4 or 5 strong core cities and then a ton of small and generally unproductive cities that I've captured and am in the process of building those initial courthouses/theatres/granaries, etc. Some of these have finally grown to pay for themselves, I am sure. But many have not.

    They have, however, given me so many resources that my health and happiness limits have not been a problem. That is a real bonus.

    I am thinking that maybe a real conquest strategy would have begun much earlier and would not have involved capturing as much as 50% of the globe. Maybe a much smaller amount would have sufficed, and I wouldn't be carrying the dead weight. (but again, I wouldn't have the resources either).

    I am not necessarily asking for THE conquest strategy, but just wondering what you guys generally do. Does anybody win a conquest victory with only their core 5 or 6 cities? Or do all conquest games start out as domination games, growing to a huge size before killing everybody off?
     
  2. jimbob27

    jimbob27 Emperor

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    I'm very similar to you. I'll get as much land as I can, before I get near to the domination level, and then switch to razing. I guess one of the main reasons is that later on, the AI are very quick to settle on new land, so if I'd rather take a continent than raze everything, simpley because I know the healthy AI's will settle all over it in an instant.
     
  3. podraza

    podraza Warlord

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    I'll bump my own thread in hopes of getting some more input. But to make it worthwhile, I'll report on what ended up happening in the game I referred to. I ended up winning a domination victory only 2-3 turns before I would have won Conquest. My units were positioned right outside the gates of the last city when I was informed that I had won a domination victory.

    I was pissed.

    I had stopped taking cities at about 50%, although it may have been slightly higher, maybe as high as 54%. I thought that popping the fat x's of 3 or 4 more cities would be no big deal. As is it, it was a big deal. That combined with other cultural expansion around the empire, helped out in large part by the removal of any opposing cultural borders via conquest, eventually put me over the top. I wasn't paying attention to this at all and was unpleasantly surprised.

    This answers at least part of my original question for me. 50% of the land mass is not so safely removed from the domination theshold as one might think. In the future, I will stop taking cities somewhere in the 40% range.
     
  4. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    You could park units outside a city, and then gift it to an AI that you haven't gone to war with yet, you would automatically keep the city, but I think that the culture will still be reset to 0.
     
  5. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

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    I've only once gotten a conquest victory - in about 900AD. I had to deliberately try to avoid taking cities - after the first AI opponent where I took everything they had, I razed everything except the AI capitals which made some good bases. There were wide swathes of unsettled lands and barbarians roaming around in them.

    The thing I found most ironic was that this didn't really help me win any quicker. By that time the limiting factor was simply how quickly my troops could march from one city to another. And I had a strong enough economy to absorb as many extra cities as I needed to - I could easily have won by domination in the same timeframe and gotten a larger score.
     
  6. ElJojo

    ElJojo Chieftain

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    You also have 20 turn befor the land you conquered is taken into account for domination. Which means that if you've taken a lot cities in a few turns, your % won't rise instantly, but 20 turns after that it will. Sometimes you know you've won a domination victory before reaching the threshold, you just have to wait for those turns.
    and, of course, it all depends on the mapsize. A 9-tiles city represent more or less. I guess with experience (or calcul) one could guess how many cities or tiles are needed and then adjust for that.
     
  7. LibertyGeis

    LibertyGeis Chieftain

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    If I'm not mistaken, domination figures are calculated off your strongest opponent as well (I think +50% of their land mass?) so even if you've stopped at 54% of the globe and are wiping out your last adversary, when you bump them below 4% land you'll automatically trip domination before conquest can enter the picture. (I could be wrong though, but I do know the domination figure fluctuates.)
     
  8. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Conquest typically is faster only on specific maps.

    Theoretically conquest is more sutable if all your cities are greatly undedeveloped, which could be a case early on.
    Second condition is that your opponent would not resettle land way to fast.

    So, the most sutable map for conquest is probably Pangea. The best way to go about it is to capture only the best cities and raise the rest, so, you have bases all around the land and can move quicly to raise all newly resettle cities.
     
  9. Lehuster

    Lehuster Chieftain

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    I feel your pain - the exact same thing just happened to me last game! I was marching up to the very last city of the very last remaining enemy civ, when all of a sudden I got the domination victory!

    DOH! SON OF A....
     
  10. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    Thats why I usually turn off domination victory. Vassels make conquest on descent sized maps doable without dragging it out to far.
     
  11. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    I only have conquest victories on warlords (thanks to vassals) or on warlord level in Vanilla (the mini-me challenge, for those who tried it).
    Domination is more failsafe than conquest IMHO.
    And it's better rewarding.
     
  12. Cookie Crumbs

    Cookie Crumbs Emperor

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    I've found the best way to take care of all those island cities dotted around the globe is to build up a smal fleet of amphibious attackers and let them sail around the world destroying coastal cities. Worked a treat as Ragnar -I had a fleet of something like 10 MI's all upgraded from CRIII Beserkers.:D
     
  13. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    In a conquest game you build military until the end. You raze cities after you control half the map.

    In a domination game, you build settlers and culture after you control half the map.
     
  14. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    Has anyone actually done this? Wouldn't you have to declare war on everyone in the area cuz once any piece of land opens is available no matter how crappy you can be sure that you'll have settlers heading that way to resettle it.
     
  15. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Of course you're going to declare war on everyone, that's you how get a conquest victory.
     
  16. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    But at once? Or is clean out an area, let get resettled then clean out it again then keep going until you got everyone. Then you stuck playing find their last city with that last civ or 2.
     
  17. podraza

    podraza Warlord

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    You are exactly right, this is why Conquest is much less popular with me than Domination.

    Generally you don't war with all of them at once, and you just accept it when they settle the land you've cleared for them. You will have to raze those cities again sometime. But this time, they won't be nearly as large or contain nearly as many units.
     
  18. svv

    svv Prince

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    I've always just stumbled on a domination win - have never had a conquest win. If you have to eliminate all your opponents for a conquest win, wouldn't you automatically have a domination win at some time before the first?
     
  19. malekithe

    malekithe King

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    a) You want to conquer the world before your opponents have covered it in cities.
    b) When going for conquest you don't keep most of the cities you take.
     

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